B&M answered some of our questions

^Goliath is La Ronde's (haven't ridden that one). Canada's Wonderland has Behemoth - great name for that one.

Thinking further, seems like the B:TR forcefulness might have spoiled me early on... ;)

I'm right there with you Gator (on the hypers). oG's is definitely my favorite of the bunch, followed by AC and DB. Nitro is okay and then RB is way behind. Still haven't gotten I232 or the Canadian pair, eh? There's just something about the air on oG's that felt a little bit more ejector and intense and little bit less floaty and smooth than the others.

Thanks Andy - knew it wasn't JUST me... ;)

The shame with RB is that IF it were run trimless it would probably rank WAY up there...as it is, it's a tall kiddie coaster.

The real question, though - why Clint didn't want to ride that *other* B&M at Carowinds (Vortex)- he said he had a great time riding it with you! ;)

Hehehe...

I'll clarify my comment regarding the intensity of B&Ms. My comments mainly surround the inverts and hypers. It feels like alot of B&M inverts have been really 'safe' designs in recent years, when the early rides (that I've ridden) like Nemesis, Pyrenees, Batman & Alpengeist are pretty intense rides. Where later inverted rides that I've ridden, namely Silver Bullet & Black Mamba are practically snoozefests when compared. But hey, that's just my opinion maybe - and hell, perhaps the parks specified they wanted a softer ride experience?

Also, my question - was anything mentioned (or does anyone know?) about the company working with Stengel? His company hasn't designed a B&M ride since 2003? Which I think was Nemesis Inferno at Thorpe Park.

No one asked about Stengel. I assume they have someone now that does that in house.

I actually thought Bullet was rather intense. Love the overbank airtime hill and the helix, but to each his own.

Not a huge fan of Silver Bullet, mostly because the drop is weak, but the overbank was pretty spectacular. Talon, which isn't particularly forceful is my favorite invert, and I can't stand the B:TR's so maybe I don't count anyway.

Talon, in the right seat, can be pretty forceful. As far as SB, I think the drop isn't intense by any means (Though I love it like I love Revolution's pre-loop drop), but I thought personally that the rest of the ride was pretty fantastic.

Rick_UK said:
...Black Mamba [is] practically [a] snoozefest when compared.
[/a][/is]

*blinks*

What? Surely you don't mean Black Mamba at Phantasialand in Germany? Sure, its rolling transitions are much more fluid than early B&M designs (a trend that has existed since around when they stopped using Stengel I think... whether it's directly related I don't know, just an observation), but it's one of the most intense coasters I've ever been on. Batman & the original Nemesis's pacing is more frenetic, but G variety and intensity-wise I'd put Black Mamba *at least* on par with them. For me, Black Mamba proved that if someone asks B&M to build them a high-intensity ride, they'll build you a high intensity ride. I just don't think Cedar Fair (Silver Bullet, Patriot) necessarily makes that distinction when they order B&Ms.

Re: Stengel, I haven't heard anything about bad blood or anything, so I'd say it's just business. They obviously felt that their own engineering team could equal or top the services that Ingenieurbuero Stengel provides, and switching was probably cheaper. Why contract out work you can do yourself at a lower cost? B&M's not alone either, we know that Mauerer Sohne does all their design work in-house with their XTRAC software, and the stateside wood coaster (GCI, TGG) design firms seem to do just fine without Stengel. These days it seems that Stengel's primary customers are Intamin, Gerstlauer, and Mack, and I'd imagine that it'll remain that way until Intamin, Gerstlauer, or Mack decide that it's a good *financial* decision to do the design work on their own too. Coaster companies are, after all, businesses; what makes sense financially is almost always the trump card.

I love Silver Bullet. I think the long rampy first drop is a nice feature to build up speed over the same old same old swooping drop without airtime.

And I found both Canadian B&M hypers to be a big disappointment. Behemoth had some pretty good airtime until the midcourse brake, but far from powerful. Goliath over Canada was very reminiscent of Raging Bull.

As for Diamondback... I've had three rides on it (2 last year and once this year). My first ride was pretty great with good airtime all the way to the end. My second lap a couple of hours later, the midcourse ruined the return run airtime. My recent lap after HoliWood Nights was akin to Raging Bull. Perhaps I just have bad luck, but I don't get the love for that ride at all. Nitro and Apollo are consistently much better IMO.

In talking with Clint, it seems Intimidator can be anywhere from outstanding to mediocre depending on how the trims are hitting.

Goliath over Georgia is the only one that never disappoints it seems. I've ridden it on three different trips and it was outstanding every time.

I can see the need for a trim to kick on if the train is going unusually too fast for safety, but B&M's seem to slow down anytime the airtime approaches anything exciting. Wish they all had the punch of Phantom's Revenge. I'll take that over any B&M.

PR definitely does not get enough love. It's in my top 3 steel (with MF and Bizarro/S:RoS).

ApolloAndy said:
PR definitely does not get enough love.

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Agreed. My thoughts after riding it again this year:

"Phantom really is one of the best coasters in the world. I usually forget that and then get re-blown away everytime I ride."

(Checked track record)
It also is one of my top 3, along with Montu and SFNE's Bizarro.
Not just being a homer, I really could ride it every day. Sometimes I do.

I absolutely love Phantom. I can't wait to ride Bizarro in 2 months to compare. Phantom has that kick you in the gut, red headed stepchild slappin, agressive domestic violence airtime and I love it.

The first time I went to Kennywood was during Phright Nites, and I didn't know much about it. I remember seeing the first drop from the road and saying to my friend "It doesn't look like it's over 200', and I really don't care for curved drops..." Little did I know what happened after that first drop, all in the dark...

Must get back there next year for that and to try the new toy out.

I've had some pretty boring rides on DB in the middle of the train, if your looking for some serious airtime on the return run you gotta try it in the back of the train, completely different coaster.

My favorite part of Phantom's Revenge is the "holy crap" moment when you round the Turtle ride and see the bunnyhops and double-down ahead and you realize just how fast you're going! :)

Tekwardo said:
The first time I went to Kennywood was during Phright Nites, and I didn't know much about it. I remember seeing the first drop from the road and saying to my friend "It doesn't look like it's over 200', and I really don't care for curved drops..." Little did I know what happened after that first drop, all in the dark...

You're pretty good. Phantom is 160' tall. And last time I checked, 160 < 200.

So, kpjb, how does Sky Rocket fit in? Or are you (understandably) at that stage where you are incapable of holding an objective opinion of the ride?

(Personally, I thought it was great. Although it is odd that I find myself comparing it to Ice Mountain Bobsleds...)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

You're pretty good. Phantom is 160' tall. And last time I checked, 160 < 200.

Cute. But my point was...seven years ago, I wasn't aware that the SECOND drop was the one over 200'.

Degado said:
I've had some pretty boring rides on DB in the middle of the train, if your looking for some serious airtime on the return run you gotta try it in the back of the train, completely different coaster.

I rode it in the back or near the back all three times. The last ride I had was a yawn fest. The first ride I had last year was top notch by B&M standards, Why can't it consistently deliver like that? That is what really bothers me about B&M's. Woodies can vary a lot by time of day or weather, but B&M hypers seem to just randomly kick on trims whenever they feel like it.

Acoustic Viscosity said:
B&M hypers seem to just randomly kick on trims whenever they feel like it.

That must be the case because of the B&M Hypers I've been on (admittedly few), I liked Raging Bull the most, Goliath (La Ronde) second best, and Apollo the least. Apollo was running extremely weak when I rode it, while the other two delivered at least a decently forceful ride.

Judging by what other people say about these rides, I must have hit Apollo on a bad day for trims and Bull/Goliath on a good day for trims.