Big Bad Wolf

Physical pain is not an opinion.

Except when it comes to the rides you love? I see you defending Raven and Legend to people who say they are rough rides all the time. My wife won't ride those coasters ever again because they are rough to her and they hurt. Is that her opinion or is it fact? Personally I put up with the pain on Raven but won't bother with Legend.

Dan... come on man. Why do you keep going after Moosh? He experienced what he did, and you can't convince him or anyone else that he didn't. It's illogical.

And to his credit, the forward/back violence is typical of all of the Arrow suspended coasters other than Top Flight Gun. Iron Dragon does it too, though it's more forgiving because it's not an even remotely aggressive layout, especially compared to BBW.

And it doesn't matter, because the ride will go away regardless.

I am just busting his chops.

Jeff said:
Dan... come on man. Why do you keep going after Moosh? He experienced what he did, and you can't convince him or anyone else that he didn't. It's illogical.

And to his credit, the forward/back violence is typical of all of the Arrow suspended coasters other than Top Flight Gun. Iron Dragon does it too, though it's more forgiving because it's not an even remotely aggressive layout, especially compared to BBW.

And it doesn't matter, because the ride will go away regardless.

I guess I was bored. 8^)

I have been on 4 or 5 of the Arrow suspendeds over the years, never have I thought any of them were rough or too harsh to get multiple rides on in a row.

We don't know if its going away or not at this point.

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:
We don't know if its going away or not at this point.

I suppose someone does know. I guess it's just a question of whether one of those someones is participating in this thread. ;)

Typically my train of thought goes like this when it comes to something of this magnitude. IF the park wasn't removing BBW - then there would *likely* be ^someone^ official putting out word that this is an unfounded rumor. Granted, this theory is by no means 100%, but it's proven surprisingly effective (and predictive) over the last dozen years or so...

Danny Biggerstaff CoAsTeRDaN said:
We don't know if its going away or not at this point.

Speak for yourself on that one. :)

^I think my theory may be getting just a little stronger, evidence-wise... ;)

I just got back from there....Moosh isn't kicking. If I had a video camera with me to post. The whole thing is a rockin'. The ride itself is rougher than Cedar Point's and King's Island. Top Gun (Flight) has the intense layout and it doesn't beat you like BBW.

It wouldn't surprise me that this classic is on it's way out. Really a lot of the arrow coasters in many parks are gone. Why would this come to anyone as a shock?

It's a shock because it's a well-loved and still highly ranked coaster by enthusiasts and the public alike, AND it showed virtually no signs of its age up until now. It's not like it's progressively gotten bad over the years. It went from fabulous to apparently bad somewhere between season pass preview day back in March of this year and last week when Mooshie visited. Something's indeed up.

Count me as one of the shocked. None of my previous rides in previous years were had moments as severe and violent as what we encountered. Knowing that my mom rarely rides coasters I never would have suggested BBW had I known. It was my comparison to SFMM's Ninja that convinced her it was something she'd enjoy.

I know many of you are finding this all a bit hard to swallow. I probably would too had it not happened to me. I don't have any ulterior motives for making up a story. I'm not "anti-Busch." Both parks are among those I've always enjoyed visiting. I'm not a wuss when it comes to rides...something AVMatt, Gator and others who've met me can attest to. I'm not bothered by rides that have some roughness to them and I crave rides with intense forces.

I don't feel as if I should have to defend myself any more. Perhaps we should move back to the original focus of the thread: BBW and it's rumored removal.

Would it come to a shock let's say vortex at king's island is gone?....unfortunately in today's world. It's about have new thrills. Something that markets new faces to the park. Isn't it the beast anniversary this year. You don't see king's island on the radio, come celebrate this coaster icon. No, they are marketing a snake.

Which brings me back to BBW. It is 25 years old. In the world of steel coasters. That's old. Wooden coasters; we would be yelling and screaming. Preserve the coaster. Steel this doesn't exactly happen.

How many suspended coasters are left by arrow?

BBW, Iron Dragon (CP), Flight Deck (KI), Ninja (SFMM) and Vortex (canada's wonderland) I think there is a 2 or 3 in Europe. I might be missing some more.

Isn't there a lot of speculation Disaster Transport is on it's way out?

Maybe I am looking at this a bit different. Dragon is gone, why wouldn't BBW be next?

The more important question is, were people still waiting to ride? If they were that's where the surprise comes in. I can think of some other Arrow Headbangers that wasn't the case. Unless something has changed rapidly, its not like their other Arrow has aged poorly.

It'd odd that the park would consider removing a beloved coaster in the same season that Kings Dominion (very close by) is adding a giga. Hmmm... wonder which park I'll be visiting next year?!

Makes the decision even easier.

I wouldn't be shocked if Vortex was removed. I enjoy it and would miss it, but it's not like it's a special, unique ride the way BBW is. Vortex doesn't really offer anything you can't get elsewhere, despite being beautiful and fun (for some of us still).

And even losing Top Gun/Flight Deck wouldn't be a huge shock to me. It's a fabulous coaster (one of my favoritest steels), but it doesn't have the grandeur that the Big Bad Wolf has with its setting, theming, layout, and ride style. My point is that BBW is not just another coaster that people are fond of; there's nothing else like it. I wish the park could at least build a new suspended coaster (someone will do it) to fill the void that will be left by removing this one, but I fear they will completely abandon the concept for something different which could easily turn out to be inferior in our eyes.

If I owned a park, Matt, I'd build a kick ass suspended and put a plaque on the back seat with your name on it. :)

Basically, my outlook on parks: Nothing lasts forever, enjoy it while you can.

Jeff brings up an interesting point...

What is different about Top Deck or Flight Gun or whatever it's calledthat it runs so much better? It even runs significantly better than its near twin, Vortex up at Canada's Wonderland.

The only thing I have come up with so far is the 12" road wheels (vs 8" wheels) and I know there are differences in the axle design (the KI ride doesn't have the same safety arm, for instance, as there is a safety pin on the axle itself, between the road wheels, inboard of the wheel carrier). But is the Kings Island ride the only one that has this design? And given the DRAMATIC difference in performance, why have NONE of the others (starting with BBW!) been modified to the KI design?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

rollergator said:
Typically my train of thought goes like this when it comes to something of this magnitude. IF the park wasn't removing BBW - then there would *likely* be ^someone^ official putting out word that this is an unfounded rumor. Granted, this theory is by no means 100%, but it's proven surprisingly effective (and predictive) over the last dozen years or so...

That is generally a good thing to go by. On a flip side, I have contacted the park and I got, "BG's policy is to NOT comment on any news or internet rumors." And that was a friend of mine there high up. That tells me one of two things, 1. it is true an they don't want it out yet. 2. Its not true and they just don't bother with rumors. true or not because they would be confirming or denying things all day long.

So I think we are back to my original statement, we simply just do not know at this time. Sometimes things like this are leaked from seasonal employees who "think" they hear something. I know that end two as I was one there and KD for a few years in the 90s.