Bay Beach has to reduce hours due to staffing shortage

It's gonna be ok. Just show us on the doll where the free market hurt you.

I feel like "Cope" has meme potential.

Some of you need to go into a corner and think hard about what you’re adding to this thread.

Lord Gonchar said:

Only as horrible as you are to employ.

Yeah I do make good money and look out for my own self interests 24/7.Employers like you tend to hate people like me.

I'm pretty sure that IRL, Gonch is not employed or employing.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Lord Gonchar said:

It's gonna be ok. Just show us on the doll where the free market hurt you.

This is what happens when people spend their time on r/antiwork over on Reddit.

Raven-Phile said:

Lord Gonchar said:

It's gonna be ok. Just show us on the doll where the free market hurt you.

This is what happens when people spend their time on r/antiwork over on Reddit.

Not the burn you think it is.

Oh. Ok.

ApolloAndy said:

I'm pretty sure that IRL, Gonch is not employed or employing.

Vincent Greene said:

Yeah I do make good money and look out for my own self interests 24/7.

Same.

Ironic, huh?

Almost like employment is some sort of an agreement that is meant to be at least somewhat beneficial to both sides.

Yeah, I tend to sit squarely in the middle there, and always have, because logically, the only sustainable way forward is to have a mutually beneficial situation. It can get out of whack in both directions, certainly, like when auto unions forced Detroit to pay people $40 an hour to mount bumpers all day (that didn't work out), and at the other end, you have Amazon forcing people to pee in bottles. To imply that either side of that arrangement in the general sense is inherently evil mischaracterizes work.

Jeff said:

Yeah, I tend to sit squarely in the middle there, and always have, because logically, the only sustainable way forward is to have a mutually beneficial situation. It can get out of whack in both directions, certainly, like when auto unions forced Detroit to pay people $40 an hour to mount bumpers all day (that didn't work out), and at the other end, you have Amazon forcing people to pee in bottles. To imply that either side of that arrangement in the general sense is inherently evil mischaracterizes work.

Labor has never been overpaid in this country and its only ever out of wack on one side no matter what corporate propaganda will tell you. Blaming the UAW for Detroit making bad choices and more than anything losing touch with the market is a prime example and thank you for making it for me.

I heard Magnum is sinking.

Around 2007, the average automotive factory worker was making around $28/hr, which is $40/hr in 2022 dollars. It is an oversimplification to suggest the average worker was "mounting bumpers" for that rate of pay, since this average rate includes a small number of highly paid skilled tradespeople (pipefitters, electricians, etc.) who are absolutely critical to keeping these plants running, combined with a larger number of less-skilled folks who were doing much more menial labor. In any case, these folks at the lower end absolutely benefitted from UAW negotiations, considering how easily replaceable they are in comparison to skilled trades.

So it is true that some labor, certainly UAW workers in the late 90's, were overpaid relative to their value.

Nothing certain about that.

No workers are overpaid in this country and nobody forced Detroit to do anything. Also how can you be less than your value? Your value is what you can negotiate.

The only people overpaid in Detroit were leadership as they were busy giving the industry to the Japanese and others.

> This is related to something else on my mind

Here's the article I was thinking of:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/03/business/economy/pandemic-supply...ation.html

The short version: US consumer culture has been fueled by an increasing reliance on offshore production where labor is insanely cheap. Doing so assumes the presence of many functioning nation-states and an increasingly-efficient global logistics infrastructure. The pandemic punched holes in both of those assumptions, and may spur a reversal of that offshoring trend at least in part.

However, buying lots of cheap and cheaply-made crap isn't the only way to live and be happy. We've convinced ourselves that it is---with the help of the companies that sell that cheaply-made crap---but that's just one possible perspective.

The same might be true of travel. I am not much of a "buy stuff" person, but I have been a "buy experiences" person, and I've tended to choose expensive (and therefore exclusive) experiences. But, those are not the only experiences worth having. Maybe I don't need a huge "infrastructure of fun" in the form of a theme park, a cruise ship, or even a fancy-shmancy "resort zone" in a Hawaiian island to have a good time. But, I've attached an almost-necessity to those sorts of things, to the point where I am vaguely disappointed to "only" be going to Boston and northern Vermont for our family vacation this summer rather than the Norwegian fjords or Tokyo and Kyoto.

All that said, I'm still spending a couple of weeks in Hawaii in the summer of '23. We've already booked a 2BR condo at our favorite resort in Waikoloa (that fancy-shmancy resort zone) and are trying to figure out which island to add to that.

Vincent Greene said:

Labor has never been overpaid in this country and its only ever out of wack on one side no matter what corporate propaganda will tell you. Blaming the UAW for Detroit making bad choices and more than anything losing touch with the market is a prime example and thank you for making it for me.

First, don't quote the previous post. We know what you're replying to. You're just wasting space on screen and in my database. Thanks.

I am absolutely overpaid for what I do. Most of us in software are. But we're overpaid because there aren't enough people with the right skills to do the job, so we can bounce from thing to thing and keep asking for more. Our pay has doubled in a decade, and that's not counting the equity we often get. Why? Because of supply and demand. This dynamic drives nearly everything and has nothing to do with greed or evil corporations. Supply and demand is what is driving hourly wages up, inflation up and supply chain challenges.

Now if you want to have a discussion about the moral implications of low-skill job wages creating inequity, that's a fair topic, but the constant drone about evil-doer corporations is exhausting and doesn't identify or address the actual underlying reasons that wealth imbalance is getting out of control.

You aren’t overpaid and I’m sad you don’t have the perspective to realize it.

And wealth imbalance isn’t /getting/ anything - America was built on cheap or free labor. It’s been horrible forever. Comfortable people are just becoming more aware.

Lastly “low skill” is elitist - i defy most people who say it to do these “low skill” jobs. Just another way to diminish the working class.

LULZ, I can assure you I'm overpaid.

"Low skill" isn't intended to diminish anything. See, this is the problem with everything that you're arguing, is you want to argue intent, which rarely is the source of the systemic problems around making a living. It is objectively true that working behind a cash register does not inherently require much in the way of skill. That has nothing to do with the value of the person.