Arrow/Six Flags politics

Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:52 PM

I find somewhat distrubing from both sides of this issue.

It's a sad day in the industry, when a coaster manufacture agrees to meet an unrealistic expectation from an amusement park chain that retalates and causes financhal devastation to the company that doesn't deliver.

What's your thoughts on the X situtation?

A CCI 200ft out and back would rock

Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:57 PM
Didnt pretty much the same thing occur between Siz Flags and Vekoma over the GIBs? If I were running a company that was building a coaster prototype I would see what Six Flags had done to Arrow and Vekoma and run screaming for another park to put my prototype in.

Bob Hansen

A proud CoasterBuzz Member
"We are not responsible for anything the Demon takes or breaks"

Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:04 PM

I think in both cases SF did rush the manufacture's to get these prototypes built and operational before they were completly tested and ready.

I can see why X would be having problems due to it's complex design but as for the deja-vu's the main reason why none of them work right is due to SF rushing the design,after all deja-vu is not really that much different from vekoma's regular invertigo design.

Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:33 PM
Six Flags made a huge gamble on installing 2 prototypes in the same park. Obviously the way it appears to be turning out is not the way they anticipated. Deja Vu is becoming more of a joke, and it appears that X is heading the same way. They have gone as far as to remove any reference to X from their website. While I honestly thought Deja Vu would be the first to go, it appears that X might be done. Although once thought as the next generation of coasters, I think it will be a while before another manufacturer takes a shot with the 4-D.
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:47 PM
I was thinking the same thing,it looks like SFMM has another "Bat" on thier hands.
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:21 PM

hymmmm... anybody remember Son Of Beast?

Did PKI give up on it? Despite lawsuits, shut downs and early negative buzz, the ride is now running fine.

What a short memory we have...

"Escuse me, can you tell me where the heck the Mystery Lodge is"?

Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:41 PM
If you are in the business of manufacturing something, you have to make sure that you can build it before you sell it. sometimes this means that you have to pass on a contract rather than blow it. I know that I personally respect a supplier whod tells me what his limits are and won't go past them, because if he does go past them I get hurt too. Vekoma and Arrow both overreached themselves last year. Also, in the case of X Arrow took it on the chin due to some very poor quality welds.
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:23 PM
I'm just curious if there's evidence of such politics. I keep hearing how SF isn't paying Arrow or Vekoma and trying to buy out Arrow's rights to the 4D design, and trying to maintain X and DV themselves, but I haven't actually seen any evidence of such happenings. Anyone have anything?

AC?, RB?, MF?, DD?, PR? Who can keep track of it all?

Thursday, June 13, 2002 5:21 AM
Can Arrow and other companies actually produce prototypes before they sell them though? I know S&S did it with the air-launch, but that was on a smaller scale wasn't it? It would seem to me that for a Project like "X" the best you could do is show the design is sound and base the sale on that. I don't see them being able to build a working prototype in their parking lot of something like that.

Wood - Raven
Steel - Millennium Force
Generic, isn't it?

Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:16 AM

I think most of you are full of crap (and I mean that in a nice way) because not one of you know anything about the terms of any contract between Arrow and Six Flags. The only thing Arrow has said (or has been implied by the press) is that building X cost more than they expected, and sadly they had to eat the cost and, in what I think made strategic sense anyway, shut down their manufacturing operation.

That's all we really know for sure. The rest is speculation. There are no "politics" between the companies, only contracts that spell out the relationship, terms of payment and goods delivered. Unless someone here has that contract in front of them, you don't know what it entails.

Jeff - Webmaster/Admin -,
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:52 AM

True enough, but I do think that the relationship has changed a bit between what we'll call "suppliers" and "consumers". Manufacturers have lost quite a bit of leverage (IMO) over the past 10-15 that there are fewer companies buying rides, I do think that SF has the upper hand, so to speak, in negotiations.....(not just with Arrow)

Based on the the GIB's and now this Xperience, I think it's possible they've pushed a bit *too hard* to get rides operational before they were fully ready...of course, Jeff is right on when he says we'll NEVER know all the details....


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