Arrow needs to sell more rides

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:00 AM
Although is not CNN, they have seemed to confirm Arrow laying off a majority of their staff, and a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection filing.

With the delays on X (which in my opinion, should have been slated for a 2002 opening so any kinks could be worked out) and the delays of the Stratosphere Coaster, Arrow have very little income coming in on the rides department.

As you know, Arrow build a bit more than rides, as stated in the recent IAAPA interview with Fred Bolingbroke, President of Arrow Dynamics, so there is a bit of cash flow with that area, but in order to once again experience new cutting-edge designs, I believe, they need to get a few more products out on the market.

"Well, John they already have 80+ fantastic coasters, a slew of log flumes and transportation rides, and not to mention, the incredible Cedar Creek Mine Ride"

With recent installations such as the fantastic Tennesee Tornado, it is clear to me that these once "old and outdated" designs can be built more thrilling than ever. Arrows current track fabrication and modern computer systems can match the quality coming out of Giovanola, Morgan and Intamin.

Not to mention, the prices on domestic designers are always signifcantly cheaper then going with, say, a Swiss firm. So, Parks, before you look at that 400' B&M Inverted, consider a Custom Arrow Mad Mouse. you will thank me for it.

John Peck (who has abosolutley nothing to do with Arrow, except love them.)

*** This post was edited by john peck on 12/12/2001. ***

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:34 AM
Arrow is a top notch company. People need to realize that their best rides are still running with good ridership numbers. I do not think that Batman will have the same numbers 25 years later like the Gemini or the Loch Ness Monster. And as for parts, well, they invented the industry standards on delivery and service. And all American made.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:48 AM
Even though their newer loopers are running much nicer than their predecessors ever did, the problem is that the sit down market is rather small these days.  Especially ones with conventional lifts.  Most of the major theme parks are moving on into newer areas of rides, while the parks getting loopers are smaller and can only afford one relatively small looper (Dollywood, SDC, etc..).  What else does Arrow have to offer?  Their 4-D's aren't looking too attractive at this point, and the rest appear to be low capacity coasters (Mouse, ArrowBatic, Fishhook).  Now don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the day that ArrowBatics are installed.  I also would love to see more mice (not necessarily Arrow, but just more mice in general) throughout the country.  I really don't see much of a market for the Fishhook coaster (although once again I would like to see the one in Vegas eventually go through).  Unless they get their 4-D working with low maintenance issues, it could be a rough couple of years for them.  I'd hate to see it, but this is a very competitive industry and Arrow seems to be lagging behind the rest of the pack.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:02 AM
Here is a list of current Arrow products:
•People Mover
•Dark Ride
•Boat ride
•Antique Cars

Water Rides:
•Splashdown boat ride

Mine train/hyper-steel supports
Mine train-wood supports
Mad Mouse
Jet Star Type(Space mountain)
Stratosphere Design

Flat Rides:
Hat Dance/Tea Cup

*** This post was edited by john peck on 12/15/2001. ***

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:14 AM
I do realize that Arrow has a rather extensive products list, but few of those rides are on the cutting edge of modern coasters.  Suspendeds seem to be dead in the water, one hasn't been built in years and although I would like to see more built, it doesn't appear likely at this point.  I already covered the looping coasters in my previous thread.  Most major parks already have a mine train, although ones that don't would most likely choose Arrow.  Most of the others are low capacity rides that don't seem to be as popular as most would think (again I would love to ride an ArrowBatic and see more mice).  The problems they've had with X could really be hurting their image.  It was their big comeback into the market, and so far it's been a bust.  Maybe it shouldn't have been marketed to open this year, but it was.  I believe that this ride will provide some of the best thrills in the industry, but parks may be leary of installing more of them if it proves to be a maintenance nightmare.  I hope that doesn't happen.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:50 AM
Arrow needs to go the CCI route. Market to smaller parks and slowly build word of mouth that you provide low cost, high thrilling rides. Of course that won't help their current situation, but I think this should be their tactics if they're able to get back on their feet. Make the big boys interested again.
"Time flies...Whether you're having fun or not". -Mary Engelbreit.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:50 AM
What is ArrowBatic?
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:10 AM
In inverted wild mouse. In the IAAPA interview, they said it could go verticle and even do loops.
CP! Still the coaster capital of the world in 2002!
My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:11 AM
I agree with DWeaver.  Arrow's best seller that still has great potential is their looping coasters.  BUT the parks that are most likely to buy them are the smaller, family run parks with limited resources, land and coasters.  I could see Holiday World getting a nice looper like TT, and possibly other parks like Indiana Beach, Visionland, Lake Compounce, Silverwood, etc...  But would this be enough to keep them going?  It's better than nothing.  Here's hoping that X (once it opens) revolutionizes the industry and an ArrowBatic at a park near you.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:02 PM
Keep in mind that Arrow does more than make coasters and thrill rides.  Ever wonder what they were doing all last decade?  They were moving their steel fabrication to their Utah plant and branching out into other areas, such as steel and fiberglass structures for buildings.  Read the whole story in the IAAPA interview here:

Combine this with their innovative new ideas and established amusement buisness, and I think that it is safe to say that Arrow will be around for a long time.  Just because one prototype ride has given them problems does not mean that they are going to go bankrupt.  X will open, and the delay is a combination of unforseen design flaws and poor advertising strategy by SFMM. 

"If somebody throws a rock and knocks a man off his donkey, do we say that he's stoned off his ass?

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:27 PM
In case you want the real story, sans rumors, check the news section regarding the fate of Arrow.

Jeff - Webmaster/Admin -
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:29 PM
    Hey, I will buy a coaster from them if it helps!!!


My Top steel: Millennium Force, Magnum XL-200, Raging Bull, Desperado, Speed the Ride. Wood: Viper, American Eagle, Twister II, Zeus, Cyclops.

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:17 PM
That's if you can afford one.
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:20 PM
I would take a TT clone over most any looper and if they would build larger versions with more inversions I would take one over any B&M, Intamin, or Vekoma looper. More people need to see what Arrow has done with the Tennessee Tornado, as it is a smooth riding G force machine.

Top Gun: The Jet Coaster Flights in 2001: 85
Coaster Tracks Ridden: 57

Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:25 PM
Do us all a favor and buy a fish hook.
Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:27 PM
Well, it appears that I have eaten my words.  At least it seems that they will be able to stay in the amusement buisness, abd thats all we really care about, right?  Good luck to them in the future, becasue I have really enjoyed their rides and I hope they can keep making them.
"If somebody throws a rock and knocks a man off his donkey, do we say that he's stoned off his ass?
Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:24 AM
Yup, there it is in the news section!
Hence the title: "Arrow needs to build more rides"

Well, I have mentioned this in other posts and forums, the success of X depends on the future of Arrow. No matter how you look at this, all eyes in the industry are watching Arrow.

C'mon guys! I have faith in you, but now everyone else needs to see more of your unique updates!

Fred admitted in the interview: "I think it’s safe to say that Arrow became complacent and lost sight of what was really important. Arrow was unable to change and improve with the advancements in technology. More attention was placed on quantity than on quality."

So, while They were making noteworthy rides, their technology remained the same and the elements didn't change much. While Toomer was in charge, I don't even think they even attempted to engineer loops of other sizes.....or am I wrong there?

Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:27 AM
Why not just get your buddy Titan_fan_I'm_13 to buy a few Arrows for his park he's gonna build.  Mayhap, he could single-handedly save the company!
Homey G, proud founder of the CCC. Join up now! :oÞ
Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:04 PM

Agent Johnson said:
Arrow is a top notch company. People need to realize that their best rides are still running with good ridership numbers. I do not think that Batman will have the same numbers 25 years later like the Gemini or the Loch Ness Monster. And as for parts, well, they invented the industry standards on delivery and service. And all American made.

I am going to have to disagree i would take BTR over any Arrow, except maybe X but that is unforseen as of now.  I am sorry but BTR is more intense, and a all around better ride than a say Viper, or Drachen fire or Ninja, or even the Magnum IMHO.

SFMM Season Pass 80$ drink 10$ ripping of six flags by coming back 100 times Priceless......

Friday, December 14, 2001 12:46 AM
I will admit, some of the Arrows do seem to lack in today's intensity. But how many B&Ms can you market to say...Disney World?

Arrow designs are based on more of a family market, especially with the mine train and the mad mice. Also, Arrow stay with a general 48" height restriction on many of their coasters which alllows first times to experience more stuff.

So hopefully, they can sell a couple more Mice for next year to some parks who may wan't one. PKI would be a good canidate in my book as well as SFWOA and Holiday World.

So right now, they just need some income on a ride that can be built fast and opened quickly


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