Arrow Dilemma

Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:19 AM
I was wondering if anyone knew when Arrow converted from the original looping/corkscrew rolling stock (The ones where you practically sit on the floor) to the more roomy trains that are used on Viper? And does anyone know the year and which the first coaster to feature the newer trains? Please and Thak You

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:29 AM
You can check out this link here. It shows all 100 Arrow coasters built - you'll have to do some digging to find what your looking for. Hope it helps.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:30 AM
I want to say that Drachen Fire was the first Arrow to use the new trains. Interesting seeing as Drachen Fire is no more.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:43 AM
I thought that all Arrow coasters used the same rolling stock? As for the "new" trains, weren't they the same chassi with new bodies on them?
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:44 AM
Many of those "sit on the floor" trains were converted over the years, too.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:48 AM
Every Arrow gives me the sensation of sitting on the floor.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:04 AM
Based on the Arrow loopers here in OH, Arrow made a change in the width of the trains sometime before 1987 with PKI's Vortex. The older loopers (CP Corkscrew and GL's Double Loop) both have a relatively narrow train. If I had to guess, I'd say they made the change when Arrow developed the 2nd gen suspended with Big Bad Wolf and XLR8 in 1984. Outside of the running gear, the seats and restraints with the two are very similar.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:06 AM
Arrow made small improvements to the trains several times over the years. I think the change you are talking about started with KI's Vortex. The seat was not as low, instead of tubular bars there was a flat section over the shoulder and the bars stayed up in the station until they were released. As Wahoo Skipper mentioned the biggest change came with Drachen Fire. Those trains were noticebaly different than the previous models. Those same trains are also on Canyon Blaster. As John mentioned many of the old trains were converted, but I have yet to see the Drachen Fire/Canyon Blaster style train on any other coaster besides those two.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:22 AM
Not the newer coasters like Viper at Six Flags Magic Mountain, GASM, on those you actually have a seat. But in the older one like KBF Corkscrew, Python at BGT and looks like Loss Ness Monster at BGW there is almost no seat. If you haven't ridden any of those two other examples of almost no seat coasters are Matterhorn Bobsled and Space Mountain at the Magic Kingdom Park. I not sure but looks like Viper at SFDL was the first to feature the newer trains or Vortex at PKI.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:23 AM
Don't forget Australia's Big Dipper!
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:23 AM
^Those new trains were used on Big Dipper at Luna Park - then the coaster moved to Dreamworld as the Cyclone.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:27 AM
I forgot the ride was renamed when it was moved. I think that ride only has one train, though.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:31 AM
I've done the searching(because I have nothing else to do at the time) and came up with this:

1st Generation:
http://www.rcdb.com/ig13.htm?picture=4
Notice how the front ends of the cars are squared-off.

2nd Generation:
http://www.rcdb.com/ig177.htm?picture=9
Notice how the front ends of the cars are rounded.

3rd Generation:
http://www.rcdb.com/ig104.htm?picture=16
Notice the overall new look of the trains.

There were also some minor changes. Like the handle bars on the Viper OTSR's:
http://www.rcdb.com/ig25.htm?picture=4

I think I got them all but not sure.

*** Edited 5/12/2005 2:33:47 PM UTC by razore86***

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:37 AM
Thank you Jeffery, that is the answer I was looking for. As for the "Drachen Fire" trains you forgot about the Cyclone at Dreamland. I would like to see more parks upgrade to the "Drachen Fire" trains as well. I am sure BGW can use the old trains from Drachen Fire on the Loch Ness Monster.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:41 AM
Did BGW save the Drachen Fire trains?
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:52 AM
^ Doubtful. I think we'd have seen them on LNM by now if they had. I'm still a little confused as to what the original dilemma was all about though.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:02 AM
I agree. I find it hard to believe that Rom Toomer(although he is up there in age) designed a coaster that was so bad that the only option was to tear it down. He's designed many rides, they may be rough, but nothing that you need to tear down.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 11:58 AM
Speaking of which, whatever happened to Ron Toomer? He was the poster child for Arrow up until the early 90s and by the time they designed the Tennessee Tornado, he had disappeared. Did he retire? Was he forced out of the company? Is he still active in the industry?
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:46 PM
As I understand it Mr. Toomer has retired but still shows some interest in the industry.
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:51 PM
Ron Toomer is retired and living in Texas now, not too far from SFOT. He still keeps in touch with some of his old friends in ACE.

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