Arrow and Vekoma rough, but Morgan smooth

I'm just wondering why Morgan designed coasters are much smoother than Arrow and Vekoma even though all three have very similar track designs.

I myself am a huge fan of arrow coasters and I feel no pain on them (I know, you think I'm crazy) but I do feel the roughness of the older ones.

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Gravity is your friend! Think about how boring riding a coaster would be in Zero-G. LIM's would be required.

I thought I heard somewhere that it has something to do with the bending of the track itself. Morgan uses a continious bend while Arrow does not. That's a pretty vague answer and I"m not sure if it's right.
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Go Pack Go!

Inversions.

Does anyone complain about Magnum being rough and headbangy?

The Arrow and Vekoma coasters that people complain about have OTSRs and inversions. Morgans have neither.

Go figure, eh?

Magnum does ride like a hunk of junk though in my opinion. You can feel the car wheels come off the rails and then slam down on each hill. Part of arrows problem is their trains and the wheels leaving the track.

Morgan coasters use much bigger and more graceful curves. The tight inversions featured on older Arrow and Vekoma coasters (that are all about the same size) cause the headbanging by going through very rapid changes of direction. Older Arrow hypers also used straight track as much as possible with abrupt curves at the hills and valleys. Morgan did learn from Arrow and made these curves a bit more gradual to go easier on the trains and track and riders.

-Ride_Op

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Visit the new Ride_Op Coaster Productions! http://rideop.twistedrails.com

Roughness is caused by one and only one thing:
Space between the wheels and the rails. The closer the rails are to the three sets of wheels,
and the closer they stay throughout the trip, the smoother the ride will be.

I disagree Andy. Flashback at SFMM is almost universally regarded as one of the most painful coasters with OTSRs that really beat you up, yet it uses the same wheel assemblies that are used on B&M coasters. All of the wheels are spring mounted and are in constant contact with the rails, yet most people still get blugeoned by that ride anyways. It is the really tight and sudden direction changes that cause the roughness, not the proximity of the wheels.

-Ride_Op

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Visit the new Ride_Op Coaster Productions! http://rideop.twistedrails.com

I agree with Ride Op, you can hear the Upstop Bars not wheels on Gemeni hit the track and that thing is smooth as glass, so what if it is justa huge mine ride its still fun and gets some good air. Any idea why Gemeni has aged so well?
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

I don't know. CP appears to have the two best Arrows!

Gemini is the most underrated ride at CP. (and one of my favs!)

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G.Bush:We will find those who did it, smoke them out of their holes, get them running, and bring them to justice.
I pray that I will never see a Six Flags Conneaut Lake

I know with SD2000 the wheel size has something to do with it....they're huge, and the ride is incredibly smooth

It looks like to me though that teh trains on Steel Dragon 2k suck as far as being out in the open ala Millie or even Maggie, and If i am not mistaken weren't SD 2k's specially designed?
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

The simple answer here is the lack of an OTSR.

Case in point - look at the rough Flight of Fear as it used to be. No-one would ride it after their first go. Now it's a dream.

Vekoma coasters aren't rough - look at the mine trains.

Arrow Coasters arent too rough when you are on a hyper.

Basically - if you construct inversions using that type of track with bad restraint systems you are gonna bang your head a few times.

Obviously the sudden direction changes affect it as well - I hate the standard Vekoma corkscrew's because they have a tight dive into a helix which really hurts.

That may be but their is a huge difference in roughness between Maggie and Gemeni. Besides I have never expereinced headbanging on an arrow looper they are rough but don't headbang. Also its hard to tell with Mine rides, Adventure Express at PKI was one of the most uncomfortable rides I have ever had, where as CCMR at CP is also smooth as glass.

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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

Morgan IS Arrow. :)
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Moxie: Not quite Cola, not quite Root Beer, not quite Asphalt!
Scale model rides: www.angelfire.com/oh4/tk173

Hahaha Thats like saying B and M is Intamin, sorry no dice.
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

Well, yeah. B&M are ex-Intamin folks, and Morgan is mostly ex-Arrow folks.

super7 said:
Magnum does ride like a hunk of junk though in my opinion. You can feel the car wheels come off the rails and then slam down on each hill. Part of arrows problem is their trains and the wheels leaving the track.

I actually like the feeling of the wheels slamming down on each hill. It makes the ride feel more out-of-control and add a little character the ride - like a good wooden coaster.

MagnumForce, read the book "Roller Coasters, Flumes and Flying Saucers". You don't have to be an Arrow fan to appreciate the hundreds of inventions they brought into the amusement world. And the whole Morgan story is explained in it as well.
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Moxie: Not quite Cola, not quite Root Beer, not quite Asphalt!
Model coasters and rides: www.angelfire.com/oh4/tk173

No I know Morgan came from arrow and B and M from Intamin and my favorite steel coasters are Arrow .
But B and M and Morgan are not Arrow and Intamin, we aren't English afterall we are Americans. Arrow basically started the modern coasters we have today with all the elements we have now.
Morgan IS NOT Arrow even if they came from a common heritage just as B&M IS NOT Intamin
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?

*** This post was edited by MagnumForce on 11/8/2001. ***

If you want to get technical, then yes they are competitors now. You have to understand my sense of humor. I just assumed everyone is familiar with the connection between them. I think it's unique to see "father and son" come together on one of the world's most talked about coasters.
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Moxie: Not quite Cola, not quite Root Beer, not quite Asphalt!
Model coasters and rides: www.angelfire.com/oh4/tk173