Are seatbelts THAT bad?

Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:27 PM
I always see people complaing when a ride gets seatbelts, usually a wooden coaster. My question is why? The Bluestreak at Cedar Point has lapbars and seatbelts and I actually enjoyed airtime for the first time with that belt (I'm not a big fan of being held in with just a steel bar) as opposed with just larbars. It seemed an easier ride on my gut until the seatbelt buckle slid below the bar and we crested a hill ;) . So tell me, do you think seatbelts are that bad?

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Off with the trims!
My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
Woodencoaster.com

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Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:30 PM
Out of the many seatbelt equipped coasters I've ridden, they haven't ever really made a difference in the overall ride experience IMO.
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Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:32 PM

My complaint with seatbelts is their effect on capacity....

Laughed myself silly on Gwazi the other day, all the ride-ops were tugging the seatbelts so they were nice and TIGHT....like I'm not gonna loosen it....I mean, I am all about safety and such, but when you're gonna push down THAT hard on the lapbars anyway, what's the deal? Good thing my legs get mysteriously longer when I notice ops pushing lapbars instead of pulling them....;)

But as far as seatbelts themselves, I vote for Kennywood's JackRabbit!!!...:)...best ride out there with seatbelts!

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Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:38 PM
I don't mind the seatbelts on woodies but the seatbelts on intamin hypers can be the most difficult and time consuming belts to get open,here's a trick to getting your belt off more easily: just undo it when you are stopped on the holding brake,that way when you are back in the station all you have to do is stand up as soon as your lap bar is released.This method should allow for faster load times.
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Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:42 PM
The Intamin seat belts are EASY and QUICK to get open...in fact they don't have some of the problems associated with other buckle types, for instance, they will readily release even if they are under tension.
All you have to do is, using your thumb and forefinger, squeeze BOTH TABS together and UPWARD, and the buckle will pop apart. Note that you must squeeze BOTH tabs. The buckle is designed so that when you want to get it open, it opens very easily. But it is almost impossible to get it to release accidentally.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:56 PM
Correct me if I am wrong. I thought that Cedar Point put the individual locking lapbars on the Blue Streak. They replaced the old Seatbelt/single lapbar setup.

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Planned Parks for this summer: SFoGa, CP, SFWoA, SFGAm, SFKK, PKI, MA, SFStL, HW, KW. Is 10 enough?
Cornerstone Festival 2002... I will be there

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Monday, May 13, 2002 3:48 AM
I don't mind the seat belts at all and if it means less stapling, I would prefer them on all coasters. I think it would make a lot of people that felt unsafe without them feel better about riding then. I don't think it ruins any of the ride aspect at all.
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Monday, May 13, 2002 4:57 AM

I don't have a problem with seat belts. In fact, they're what makes airtime rides like Magnum or Phantom's Revenge comfortable, because when they're pulled tight, they form to your body shape, restrain you from slamming the lapbar, but give you air time.

People who complain about them are often just enthusiasts looking for something to complain about.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Monday, May 13, 2002 5:19 AM
I do agree with Koaster King. I my self feel more safer with seat bealts. They are there for a reason more saftey.

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Valleyfair Security 2002! 8Years working at Valleyair :)! SRM, Coastermainia CP, Kings Island June 9th, Timbers Fest. May29th-June10th less than 2weeks :)!

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Monday, May 13, 2002 5:44 AM

Enthusiasts looking for something to complain about? What would ever give you THAT impression???

Seriously... agreed on that comment about air time. Being secure in a seat does not minimize the air or at least the feeling of air. While not seat belts, the restraints on Apollo's chariot were some of the snuggest (but most comfortable) that I have ever run into, and there was plenty of air.

The only coaster I ever rode before and after seat belt's was Hersheypark's Comet. Truthfully, I can't tell the difference... with one exception. Like mentioned above, you no longer bruise your legs on the bar when you pop out of your seat on the first drop. The ride is the same, the air (waht little there is) is the same, but the pain factor of hitting the bar with your legs is gone.

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Monday, May 13, 2002 5:52 AM

I don't mind seatbelts at all! On the Intamin hypers/giga I love those seatbelts! I am the only one that can actually undo it on the first try so I am the first person to get back in line before the others do. Every body else on the train is strugglying and asking me for help and do I help? No (insert evil grin)

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Monday, May 13, 2002 5:56 AM

I don't mind them at all.

And I agree with Jeff 100%. The people I here complain about the belts are always "enthusiasts". They're also the ones I see unbuckle the belts leaving the station and re-buckle on the brake run.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

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Monday, May 13, 2002 7:48 AM
I think that Rollergator's comment about capacity is a valid one. Capacity-oriented parks like Knoebels put them under the seats on Twister to keep their throughput high and keep their customers happy. Is it a huge delay? Usually, no. But if you add up the time throughout the day when time is lost due to fumbling guests and/or attendants you get more people on the coaster which means more money on weekends and happier customers that waited in shorter lines.

On the safety note, I can see seatbelts on some coasters like Intamin hypers. However, a lot of the seatbelts on wooden coasters today were added to reduce liability- not increase safety. Most coasters operated for years without incident and just had them put on because thier insurance company told them to. Can you safely run a coaster without seat belts? Smaller parks like Indiana Beach and Cliffs seem to think so. Both have PTC trains with seat dividers, one lapbar and no seatbelts. If a park does choose to use a seatbelt I wish they would go the "one belt" route. Having one seatbelt for every pair of people gives folks the secure feeling of a seatbelt and does not harm capacity as much because they are easier to find. Again, this may only save a little time for each dispatch, but that time can add up over a day.

Adam

http://history.amusement-parks.com

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Monday, May 13, 2002 8:16 AM
Yeah but, didnt representatives from PTC 'officially' state that the seatbelt is the primary restraint and the bar is the "fail-safe"? Whether or not you believe the veracity of the statement, to operate their coasters without the belts (as @ Knoebel's, PKI, PKD) is to operate outside the manufactuers guidelines. And, as evidenced by the Perilous Plunge fiasco, that can have very dire consequences.

Personally, I like the individual seatbelts, I've never had a problem with them. It's the "two for one" seatbelts that always seem to have a problem. For some reason, it takes longer for two people to cooperate and get the dang thing fastened.
lata,
jeremy
--who wonders why "automobile" type restraints arent more prevalent on amusement rides.

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Monday, May 13, 2002 8:26 AM

I agree! Why can't everyone do retracting seatbelts like Morgan? They're easy to find and you don't sit on them first thing when you sit down.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Monday, May 13, 2002 8:55 AM

Retractable seatbelts are prone to other problems like the belt jamming inside the retracting mechanism. I seen this happen twice on Mamba when I was at Worlds of Fun last month.

Adam, I'm pretty sure both wooden coasters at Indiana Beach have seat belts. Tig'rr, on the other hand, has no restraints at all. :)

Kyle

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Monday, May 13, 2002 9:52 AM
Retractable seatbelts are also more prone to failure and require partial disassembly for for proper inspection by maintenance.
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Monday, May 13, 2002 10:01 AM
Interesting, Jeremy. Do you know where this was printed (or uttered). If it is true, I wonder how they can sell trains sans seatbelts?

Adam

http://history.amusement-parks.com

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Monday, May 13, 2002 12:24 PM
IIRC, it was said during the PTC Factory tour segment of the 2001 ACE Coaster Celebration. Of course, since I wasnt there, *I* didnt actually hear it. But I do recall there being quite a stir about it. And again, recalling on my "hearsay" memory, PTC *DOES NOT* sell trains without the belts. Any PTC train that you see without the belts either actually has the belts, but you cant see them (i.e. they are tucked under the seat) or they have been removed post-purchase. In either case, that is the parks call, but when it leaves the factory, the train has seatbelts.

And while I'm sure the ratcheting belts have their own set of concerns to deal with, I still dont think those mentioned justify there noticable absence from coasters. It's been proven on other rides that those types of belts are able to take the *repeated* pounding that is associated with an amusement park attraction (for evidence, see the Paramount Action Theaters). So while there are *different* issues with these belts, I'm not convinced that they are so substantial as to compromise their viability.
lata,
jeremy
--who was unaware that any Morgan besides Phantom's Revenge had retracting belts.

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Monday, May 13, 2002 12:51 PM
LONNOL, maybe they meant they were the main restraint on certain types of cars they have. Viper at SFGAm have no seat belts, and as far as I know, the cars are PCT. They have multiple postition lap bars. However, on Cyclops at Big Chief's, there are seat belts. I belive they are the main restraint. You ride it and tell me they aren't. With a single position lap bar, you can easily slip through without a belt.

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When did American Eagle get more airtime than Viper?

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