Are licensed characters crucial to the bottom line of regional parks?

By the time IOA opened, the Jurassic Park fad was already beginning to fizzle. Had the park opened five years earlier with that theme it would have been an entirely different story. The Seuss brand, while meaningful to many people, is hardly a draw like Disney and Nick characters- I doubt any kid will go running to the Grinch when Cinderella and Spongebob are standing by. The only real stroke of genius was the Marvel area since the rides paralleled movies that were being filmed (Spiderman & The Hulk). Of course, Spiderman is the only Marvel IP that really matters. The Hulk movie bombed and that IP pretty much faded away as quickly as it returned, and it's not like Dr. Doom is the equal of Batman and Superman.

If anything, IOA is a hodgepodge of mediocre properties glossing over what would be an incredible experience if the rides had generic themes (maybe save for the Spiderman ride). IOA's properties idea works under the assumption that something in the park is going to appeal to someone.

*** Edited 11/7/2007 2:08:36 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Wow, I completely disagree. I think IOA has the most well-executed themes outside of Disney anywhere, and frankly it doesn't feel like Disney (in a good way).

My ex is definitely not a coaster park person. She thinks CP is an ugly crap pile. She liked PKI a fair amount. Wanted to do BG-Africa and thought it was okay. Hated Disney. Despised Disney. I can't emphasize that enough.

She walked two feet past the IOA entrance gate and started squealing. Squealing, I tell you. With a shriek I'd expect out of the then four year-old Midget. And kept squealing until she could overcome enough of her euphoria to resume speaking in sentences.

Any park that can get THAT out of her is doing the right thing with the theming.

-'Playa

I didn't know this was a discussion about how well-executed the themes are. If that's the topic, then I do agree that the park is filled with well-executed themes. I can't say there is anything about the park that shows a lack of creativity. But I don't see how things like Dr. Seuss and Popeye can even be mentioned in the same breath as Snow White and Indiana Jones. People go to Disney because they want to see Mickey but no one goes to IOA because they want to see Popeye.

How about people who go to IOA because they DON'T want to see Mickey?

Is the Flintstone park in South Dakota still around? That was a cool place in 1981.

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CoastaPlaya said:

She walked two feet past the IOA entrance gate and started squealing. Squealing, I tell you. With a shriek I'd expect out of the then four year-old Midget. And kept squealing until she could overcome enough of her euphoria to resume speaking in sentences.

Any park that can get THAT out of her is doing the right thing with the theming.

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It's an excellent park, but I doubt she was squealing because she saw Bluto.

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millrace said:
How about people who go to IOA because they DON'T want to see Mickey?

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That was pretty much the angle of the commercials that Universal ran for quite a while this past year.

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Is the Flintstone park in South Dakota still around? That was a cool place in 1981.

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Yep.

I would agree that they have some fairly big names in the park currently and perhaps some of that was overlooked to a degree. Seuss is a draw there is no question in my mind, could be the largest draw they have (for character items). Jurassic Park was huge but like Rob said it opened at this location a little late to hit the largest popularity of that franchise. The marvels do add a certain degree of a never dying franchise that will be able to last. The only problem with comics is that most parks use the comics for the themes. Today people are more related to the movies which gives a different feel. Think of if Spiderman used the characters from the actual movies instead of a cartoon. People riding the ride would have a lot more to relate to. That's already a successful ride but think about using the characters from the popular X Men movies for something else on that island...

Anyway what I was trying to get across was that for whatever reason IOA just doesn't pull the attendance that it should be for such a world class park. When Harry Potter arrives I am positive that will not be the case.

To get back to the topic I would stay say they are not crucial at regional theme parks but they still help growth tremendously.

But if how 'current' the licensed character happened to be was the driving factor, everyone would be storming the Nick parks and nobody but nobody would be rushing to the Magic Kingdom, where the central character hasn't headlined a feature cartoon since when? The 1970s? But we all know the opposite is true.

If anything, it lends weight to the argument that the themed character has to resonate with Mom and Dad first...not the trend of the week.

-'Playa

There's no question that parks like Disney and Universal rely heavily (and see a massive return on investment) for their licensed characters. But, they're also global entertainment companies that create many of these characters themselves. So, I really don't think you can compare IOA's/Disney's character use to parks like Holiday World and/or Cedar Point. There's also no question about theme either. Two entirely different subjects. Like most people said, people go to those parks FOR the characters in many cases.

But, I don't think the majority of people go to Holiday World or Cedar Point for Holidog or Snoopy. Are they good to have? There's no question. I'm really interested and curious to know if the actual brand is important or just the fact there are characters.

People without children (myself included) have all of their opinions discounted by 50% for the puroposes of this thread... ;)

MY take (I guess my one cent's worth, LOL)....I think Jeff and Gonch are on the right track. HIGHLY recognizable characters like Mickey and Spongebob can actually drive attendance. Spiderman, probably on that level for the time being.

Back 10 years ago, I was one of those asking "Who's Spongebob"? Not anymore. He is *almost* as important to the Nick universe as Mickey is to the Disney portfolio.

^No, I go to IOA because I like Hulk, Spiderman, Jurassic Park, and the Dueling Dragons ride. Popeye is a pretty good ride. I rather go on Popeye at IOA than Kali Rapids at Animal Kingdom. They are both themed, but I believe that IOA has the better theming I can relate to.

I found that very interesting about what someone said that people very easily remember a ride when it has that character licensing compared to not having that character licensing. Batman, Superman, Mr. Freeze, Spiderman, Snow White, and so on are types of those rides that you can see a cartoon, or watch a movie, and remember those rides especially. It's different than a ride named Shockwave, Magnum, Maverick, Wicked Twister, Georgia Cyclone, Georgia Scrocher, Goliath, X, and so on.

I don't think people go to IOA for their characters either, leading me to lump their IPs in the "fluff" category. They're there, but it's not like they make or break the decision to go to IOA. As far as IOA's attendance, the park hasn't added anything major since it opened in 1999. That's almost ten years! The only other area park that hasn't done much is Magic Kingdom, but that park runs on autopilot anyway. Every other Orlando park has invested a lot since 1999.

^^ But I thought ride names were irrelevant and meant absolutely nothing? :)

The reason I have a hard time including the Disney parks into the discussion is due to the fact that those parks exist because of the characters.

It's a whole different ballgame.

Back in 1976 Marriott understood the importance of adding beloved Looney Tunes characters. Park of buying Great America afforded Six Flags with the character presence they sorely lacked. Now most other Six Flags Parks have wonderful Looney Tune Areas. Now with Thomas and the Wiggles and in Great America's case Hanna Barbara areas, both Kids and Adults Love Character interaction. If Great America just opened a bare bones non themed area instead of the Wonderful Wiggles Theming what would be the draw for families? Don't worry every item containing licensed indicia is a cash cow for for each Chain. Bugs Bunny Forever.

^^ Very true. Love him or loathe him but Walt Disney was a genius. Long before marketing buzz words like cross-promotion existed, he found a way to integrate all parts of his business. The parks, the movies and the merchandising all go hand-in-hand. But despite that, they are the reasons people go to Disney parks and if Disney parks didn't exist, other park companies would be selling their souls for IPs of that caliber.

*** Edited 11/7/2007 7:04:20 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Yeah, but I think it's transcended even that. The park is the product in Disney's case.

If those parks never existed, I don't think you could slap Mickey or Nemo or Cars or whatever into an established park and get the same results.

I think Disney works so well because of the way it was done, not necessarily because of the characters and IP's represented there.

I won't deny that one bit. And maybe it has something to do with the parks keeping many Disney characters alive and relevant, but many of those IPs have aged a lot better than others. The old WB cartoons seem to satisfy a niche market while old Disney cartoons are arguably as popular now as they were in the 30's, 40's and 50's.

Great topic! My two cents, for what it's worth...

I think that I read in a Disney book at some point that the biggest difference between making a themed ride based on an existing property and making a themed ride without an existing property is that the ride with the property already has a ton of stuff that it doesn't have to do because so many of the people will be familiar with it, and therefore the theming and storyline can be much more complex.

Case in point - Batman The Ride doesn't explain to you who Batman is, what his goals are, who his enemies are, or anything like that. You get a lot of things that if you know the character makes you relate more with the theming -- the Batcave, the Batman suit, the Strom Drain tunnel, the Bruce Wayne donated park.

If you were to theme the ride similarly without the Batman background, you would have to explain that Bruce Wayne and Batman were the same person, and that he was a good guys who when you went into his Batcave (a nice place) would want to help you by sending the train to "save" you.

While those rides have lost a lot of theming over the years, the general idea still works.

Likewise, rides like the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean that were not based on existing properties had to be so much more generic in their story telling. Yes, the rides had multiple layers to them and you would notice more details every time through, but the first trip through you didn't even necessarily notice a story there.

So, in my mind, recognizable characters are important for the establishment of deep themed rides. They are not nearly as important if the park is going to get an unthemed ride, but for themed experiences, it does make a big difference.

Do characters drive huge attendance spikes? Not a ton by themselves (although you would definitely get some), but if you accompany them with a deep, well themed ride you will get a lot more returns from people who really enjoyed the ride the first time through. Even better is if you can accompany that amazing experience with something in the marketplace that really captures the attention of people right then and now.

Six Flags did it nearly perfectly with the first highly themed Batman ride that happened to debut in the same summer that a highly anticipated blockbuster movie was released (with a large advertising campaign). While Batman would have been popular with or without the name Batman, a huge part of its draw was *definitely* the fact that the ride was named and well themed after the character, and that the character was enjoying some huge promotional backing at the time.

Would a costumed Batman character walking around in the park without a ride have drawn the crowds as well? Would the first Batman coaster have packed in as many people if it was just titled Shockwave and unthemed?

I doubt it -- but if you really think so, then there's the answer.