Are coaster designers really pushing the limits?

Monday, November 26, 2001 4:57 AM
Most enthusiasts talk about how extreme coasters are getting these day with advanced technology. Yet, the fastest and tallest coasters produce significantly less amounts of g forces than smaller coasters. Most older shwarkopfs pull insane amounts of vertical g's, while many hypers such as some morgan's barely pull 3 g's. Designers have to make tamer layouts to keep the g-forces within a reasonable range. IMO, the height and speed limit could both go a lot higher and many designer admit that but that would mean tamer layouts and probably less g-forces. 

Wouldn't it feel amazing to be weightless for more than just a second, maybe even half the ride:)? Roller coasters are about the certain abnormal sensations that your body feels such as weightlessness, the sensation of speed is not enough to make a good coaster. I think designers need to stop concentrating just on the speed and height of the ride, and spend more time on pushing the limit with g-forces and weightlessness.

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Monday, November 26, 2001 5:07 AM
I guess you have to ask yourself what limits need to be pushed. I always use the Millennium Force vs. Wildcat example. Wildcat pulls the greater G's, but The Force pulls G's for longer periods of time. It's never uncomfortable in either case.

Speed and height are limits to push, but in that case you've got money to deal with, and the fact that such decisions are rarely made by designers, but rather the parks that are ordering the product.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Monday, November 26, 2001 7:21 AM
G-forces in and of themeselves are BORING. For proof, just ride a gravitron. That puts you at nearly 5G for a minute or two.

What's exciting is CHANGING forces. If you look at the parts of rides enthusiasts rave about in almost all cases they combine 2 or more forces in quick succession.

-------------Tyler Eaves
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Monday, November 26, 2001 7:30 AM
The limit on G-Forces has not yet been approached.  Mindbender at Edmonton Mall pulls 5.2G, and I believe that's still the record.  But Jeff's point is absolutely valid that the DURATION of the forces is extremely relevant, as is Tyler's point that CHANGES is forces is what makes rides FUN!
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the buzzer formerly known as gatorwoodie
Son of Drop Zone - PKI CoasterCamp I Champions!!!
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Monday, November 26, 2001 8:44 AM
Well, just remember, back in 1973 when the Great American Scream Machine was built at SFOG, its designers thought that they were really close to the limits of what they could build, and that people wouldn't get on anything much taller.  Now look at today...
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Monday, November 26, 2001 12:44 PM
With the newsest announcement from Germany, now this would be a good topic :)
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Monday, November 26, 2001 2:22 PM
Didn't the Steel Phantom pull 5.6 G's going through the inversions, or after the first drop? I thought I seen that on one of the Discovery channel shows. The person riding the Phantom put some home made guage on the front of the train. It was quite interesting.

Like Jeff said, "I guess you have to ask yourself what limits need to be pushed. I always use the Millennium Force vs. Wildcat example. Wildcat pulls the greater G's, but The Force pulls G's for longer periods of time. It's never uncomfortable in either case."

I don't think we are no where near the limits in terms of G's and duration of sustained G's during the course of the coaster. I believe older Schwarzkopf's are more intense throughout than a modern hyper/giga. Lazer at Dorney is a good example. Its all one intense quick ride with sudden changes in driection. I Personally would like to see more of that applied to the modern hyper/giga, or any other for that matter. My favorite woodies are that way. A great coaster is one that is just as intense hitting the brake run as it is disengaging the chain(or cable.)

*** This post was edited by Coaster Fantom on 11/26/2001. ***

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Monday, November 26, 2001 3:20 PM
Changes in G-forces are definitely intense and fun. Sustained amounts of high g-forces can be very painful.  I have experienced this on stunt planes where we pulled 5 vertical g's for a few seconds, very painful, felt like it was ripping off my face!!!

Abrupt changes in g-forces can create quite a thrilling ride, good example of that is Goliath and Titan. They mix some intense laterals with varying vertical g's, creates quite a wild and crazy ride!!

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The world's a roller coaster and I am not strapped in, maybe I should hold with care, But My hands are busy in the air- Incubus

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Monday, November 26, 2001 5:30 PM
Speaking about G-Forces.  Does anybody know the G-Force of the launch of Hypersonic XLC?  I know that Dodonpa will have a 4.3 G launch but I think I recently read that the launch was more "spread out" (3 different launches, milliseconds apart) and will not be as intense as Hypersonic.  So if 4.3 Gs is not as intense as Hypersonic, then how intense Hypersonic is?
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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 7:41 AM
80 MPH = 117 FPS

0 - 117 FPS in 2 se = 58.5 FPS/S
1 G = 32 FPS

Hypersonic: 1.83G

The 4.3G figure for Dodonpa is vertal G I beleive

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Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:58 PM
Coastergames, you think G's are boring lol. You must despise airtime then right?
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"It's always great for us to put the newest and the best rides into the roller coaster capitol of the world" Sandor Kernacs 11/20/01
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Friday, November 30, 2001 10:19 AM
I heard hypersonic was 3 g's.  I don't see how Dodonpa could get to 110 mph in the same time as Hypersonic and still be less intense.  I would think it would be more intense.

On the topic of designers pushing the limits I don't think so.  I think the intensity and changes in direction etc. will keep getting more and more.  I hope to become a designer and slowly, but surely, change this.

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Friday, November 30, 2001 10:21 AM
The Japanese air thrust is physically much longer. Lots of straight track.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Friday, November 30, 2001 10:23 AM
I think they were talking only about vertical g's, joey.  I agree that vertical g's can be boring, but only when they are sustained for a long time.  I like Apollo's Chariot's drop not only because IMO it has more airtime, but the drop flattens out later.  More G's, but sustained less.  Then the flat section sets the next high g climb up.
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Friday, November 30, 2001 10:25 AM
I never heard that.  I don't know too much about that particular ride, other than the height, speed, and somewhat the elements.  I guess that does make sense, though.
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