Are B&M Stand-Ups done for?

The only standup that I really wanted to ride again after getting off of was The Riddler.

The Riddler, in my opinion, was done well enough, on a large enough plot of land, with smooth transitions, in a very well-done order that made a very smooth ride. I consider most standups to really rough and overall unfun because of that experience, but The Riddler very pleasantly surprised me. It was the smoothest out of all of the ones I have been on and very re-rideable, IMO.

IMHO RR is just a superb steel coaster. The fact that it is a stand-up seems more or less irrelevant. Every other stand-up coaster I've ever ridden - from any manufacturer - has been disappointing and/or painful to a greater or lesser degree (although I admit I haven't made it to Georgia Scorcher yet).

However for me the really interesting question here is whether the B&M flying coasters which are currently popular with parks/public will fall out of favor towards the end of the decade in much the same way as the stand-ups did in the 1990s.

Discuss :)

Flyers do seem headed in the same direction, especially now that it looks like B&M will lose Six Flags as a client for a good while. Tatsu could become what Riddlers is, the pinnacle of that design. Regardless of how the ride is received, it may remain the largest, fastest and most expansive of it's type.

Cedar Fair has yet to bite.

Just because CF has not bit the Flyer idea does not mean it is out of the picture.

If they continue to make rides like AIR and Tatsu, I believe the market will be positive. I think the Vekoma ones may be done, but not B&M. I believe they are just beginning...

The only one i have ridden is the Giovanola/Intamin Shockwave at Drayton Manor. A nice little ride. i quite liked the standing sensation. especially on the drop and zero-g-roll. just made a nice change to the usual coaster.

I don't think that they are done for. People thought that with wooden coasters. I would LOVE to see and ride another stand-up. I think that the whole standing sensation will and does go over well with the GP.

What is the speculation that there will be any in the future? Are they a lost cause, or do you think we'll see a new stand up again?

You have to keep in mind that parks dictate what is built, not manufacturers. Should a park think a stand-up coaster is what fits their line-up and asked a company to design one they would. There are only 8 stand-up coasters currently operating in the US. Seems to me there are plenty of parks who could add one and it would be unique to their market.

Look how long it took for a park to build a bobsled-type coaster. The last NEW one to open was Avalanche in 1988 at PKD [Great Escape's ride, which opened in 1998, was used and opened new in 1984]. Now 18 years later Knoebels is building their own in-house version.

Dead? No...but dormant for sure.

I have ridden all B&M's other than the Vortexs, and I have been very split. 2 sucked: Mantis and Iron Wolf, 2 were OK: Chang and Riddler, and one KICKED ASS: Georgia Scorcher. I'm not a fan of standups by anymeans, Id say I dislike them more than like them, but Georgia Scorcher is a top ten ride in my opinion, it is smooth, intense, gives some great airtime and is very compact.

Of the stand-ups I've been on, Riddler's is the best (have yet to get to SFoG to try Scorcher). From what I remember of my ride it was very smooth and I loved the hang time in the inversions. I think it's one of B&M's best layouts.

I think the worst goes to Iron Wolf and PGA's Vortex.

I don't think they are totally dead yet and as most have already stated it's up to the parks to purchase if they feel it's the right attraction for their park. B&M still offers them in their catalog.

X Factor

Knoebel's is building a bobsled? Why? Whatever. I like Knoebels, its not too bad, but this is a weird addition. *** Edited 1/18/2006 2:32:02 AM UTC by Jeff Reim***

I'm one of the odd few who genuinely enjoy standups... especially the aggressively transitioned ones. For instance, I loved Vortex @ PGA, and in my opinion Mantis is the best looping coaster at Cedar Point *ducks*

That being said, when you look at the two standups that the majority of people seem to like (Scorcher and RR), they have two things in common. One is that they are the most recent B&M standups, and as such represent refinements in design style. Most noticeably is the emphasis on lowering the roll rates through inversions and transitions. The reason for this is that since the riders are restrained in such a way as to expose them to more of the ride's forces due to such factors as a variable height/heartline (depending on rider height) and the lack of seat to cradle your body through transitions with heavier lateral gs (on sitdowns the seat helps your body move, on standups you're pretty much relying on the OTSRs to dissipate lateral force which raises the potential for headbanging).

What this all means is that the "flaws" and "inherent" roughness of standup coasters can actually quite easily be avoided, so long as roll rates and rotational acceleration rates are more carefully controlled (read: lower) than the typical, seated B&M. Look at a POV of Riddler and compare it to Vortex PGA or Iron Wolf SFGAm. Riddler's rolling transitions are significantly slower than either of the earlier breeds, and it's not solely because of its size, because Scorcher is a similar size and with the lower roll rates and transitions produces a smooth, intense ride that people generally seem to like.

Basically what I'm getting at is that while we haven't seen a standup for a while, there is nothing inherently wrong with their design that would prevent them from being built in the future, it's just a matter (I feel like an echo) of whether or not a park asks for one.

- Bill

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BBSpeed26 said:
in my opinion Mantis is the best looping coaster at Cedar Point

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Not saying much as the only other looping coasters at the park are Raptor and Corkscrew.

I enjoy the back row of Mantis just for the fact that it litterally kicks my ass.

Add me to the "OMGLOL!!!!1z Riddler is Amazing" list, please.

Jeff Reim said on the previous page: Knoebel's is building a bobsled? Why? Whatever. I like Knoebels, its not too bad, but this is a weird addition.

Knoebels is building a Flying Turns, which was the wooden precursor to the modern Bobsled coasters. It's been something Dick Knoebels has been wanting to add for a few years now. He has fond memories of riding the version at Euclid Beach when he was a kid. It'll be the only Flying Turns operating in the world...how is that weird?

If you search CBuzz's general forums you'll find a few discussions about this new addition.

Moosh, I just wanted to clarify that there have been a few new bobsleds built since Avalanche in '88. I believe that Mack has built three since then (admittedly, all outside the US), the last being Parc Astérix's Trace Du Hourra (2001).

Dawg - the flyers haven't been around that long, so I don't know if we can say that they are going to stick around. Stand ups took 20 or so years before fizzling out. Flying coasters, for the most part, are like 5 years old. And I prefer stand up vs. flying (the one at SFA made me nauseous). I truly feel that flying will be gone quicker than the stand ups (as far as new ones being built). Too much of a novelty.

Mike Zimmermann
Theme Park Brochures
www.themeparkbrochures.net

TCKR- yes, but they are not made of wood. Avalanche and the Mack's are metal. Flying Turns will be made of wood...

Can't say I will lament their passing if they are in fact "done for". I've ridden two standups...

Shockwave (Togo - PKD) and Mantis (B&M - CP).

Both were painful. The B&M felt like it was trying to crush and tear off my ears. The Togo felt like it was trying to crush and tear off... well... NOT MY EARS.

Of the two though... I prefer the battered ears.

palwine, that's why I said bobsled, not flying turns. Read Moosh's original post on page one. :)