Any new 4D's sold yet???
1. The prototype works
2. Arrow and S&S merged
3. It ranks one of the highest rated coasters.
it seems as though more would be sold by now?
Has any?
P.S. Sorry about the triple question marks. I know that it drives people crazy.
*** This post was edited by Coaster Bob on 12/29/2002. ***
Believe it or not, all the kinks have yet to be worked out of X. I truly hope that they can get this type of coaster up and working efficiently. Capacity also seems to be a big problem. Until these problems are dealt with, I doubt we'll see any new 4-D's.
This thing could be the most influencial innovation since the inverted coaster back in 1992. If they can work out the bugs, I would love to see them pop up all over becuase they are so unique and brilliant in design.
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It's still me, here from the beginning back in 1999. Add 1500+ posts to the number I have in the info section if you care about such things.
*** This post was edited by CPgenius on 12/29/2002. ***
"Believe it or not, all the kinks have yet to be worked out of X. I truly hope that they can get this type of coaster up and working efficiently. Capacity also seems to be a big problem. Until these problems are dealt with, I doubt we'll see any new 4-D's".
That seems to be the common theory, but I don't think that's it at all. If parks are going to sit around and wait for all the "kinks" to be worked out of X, they're going to be sitting around forever. X will *always* have kinks, it's probably the most radical rollercoaster ever built, and it's the first one. Capacity-wise, what you see is what you get, but that's not to say Arrow isn't ready to deliver one with a much improved station and loading procedures, but X is done, and it's up to SFMM to keep it up and running.
I suspect the real delay had more to do with Arrow's fanancial situation as a company, as well as the dispute with Six Flags. Could they have even afforded to take on a second and third ride up until a few months ago? Are the people responsible for X even on the same page as everyone else at this point? I suspect there is some "drawing board" action going on as we speak.
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Superman:The Escape(1997-2002) May he one day fly again.
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/29/2002. ***
I think S&S/Arrow will want to refine the design further before building any more. S&S seem to have a really good business philosophy, and were proud that all of their rides have opened on time when I last looked at any of their brochures.
I was reading in First Drop that a lot of work had been done on the trains, although I was surprised that they were considering adding things like launches and a completely different train/loading system to what is already a developing idea.
Also, how long until Intamin, B&M and (god forbid) Vekoma jump on the bandwaggon? I think it can only be a few years until Intamin launch thier version, and B&M soon after.
Happy new year.
Regards, Marcus
Coaster Kingdom: Hex - Legend of the Towers review
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It isn't so bad. . .
Once you're used to it
The kinks in the Russian mountains never fully worked out either but the rides that followed were improved and had the newest solutions to the problems built in. No Russian mountain was ever transformed into a wood coaster with full safety features but the new rides by LaMarcus Thompson and John Miller were.
Think about it.
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My fellow Americans; Let's Roll!
Woodencoaster.com
The World of Thrills
Regarding what Whizzer Boi said - Yeah, and look at all the new models of those coasters they have now. Take Superman:UF. B&M took the same idea as Vekoma and worked all the kinks out of it, transformed it into a bigger, stronger ride, and now they're cloning the ride all over the place - and it's turning into one of the smoothest, most unique rides ever.
Just imagine what B&M could do with a 4D.
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I was just at Magic Mountain yesterday.
I've ridden X twice within the last month and each time two trains were operating. My average wait time has been 1 hour and 15 minutes. I'm sure there are still some kinks, but the world is being deprived of the incredible sensations this ride delivers. I'll give a trip report today as well. Still, I'll have to agree with ACN that it is the best steel coaster of 2002.
No park is going to want to buy another 4D coaster if there are major problems with it. Who wants to invest money into something that might work? There is always a gamble with new coaster designs and only a few parks will take the chance at buying one.
Speaking of S&S, how many Air Thrust 2000 have we seen since Hypersonic XLC? It had kinks too and no one wants to deal with that maintainance.
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"The opposite of war isn't peace, its creation," Rent.
Capacity is going to be killer, especially paired with the price tag. I remember not too long ago someone saying that the dispatches were still so slow that capacity was around 225pph assuming every seat was full, with two trains. I wonder if it has ever even cracked 500?
I'm glad it's doing better now, but they are really going to have to rethink the thing for capacity if they ever want a CF park or others to seriously consider one.
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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson
*** This post was edited by Peabody on 12/29/2002. ***
"No park is going to want to buy another 4D coaster if there are major problems with it. Who wants to invest money into something that might work"?
There is no "might" to it. X *does* work. Even when the ride went down for 2 months of modifications, it worked. Arrow has already proven(even with their limited resources) that this ride works. Now it's a matter of perfecting it for the masses. That's what a *prototype* is all about.
I'm sure capacity is the one big thing Arrow and S&S are looking at, and who's to say they haven't already found a solution? Nothing they could come up with is going to help X however, that ride is what it is.
I love the way so many people have advice for people who build these rides for a living. ;)
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Superman:The Escape(1997-2002) May he one day fly again.
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/29/2002. ***
And almost no six flags theme park has enough room for a coaster of that size. Unless they buy one of the generic layouts offered by arrow which look kind of boring.(IMO)
*** This post was edited by Colonel Sanders on 12/29/2002. ***
Marcus Sheen said:
I think S&S/Arrow will want to refine the design further before building any more. S&S seem to have a really good business philosophy, and were proud that all of their rides have opened on time when I last looked at any of their brochures.
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: Is this same company proud of their attraction that blew over in a stiff Lake Erie breeze? S&S is not a company without blemishes.
After my experiences at Magic Mountain riding X, the only major problem I see with the project is that Arrow was 'forced' to open the ride way too early. Most prototypes go through extensive testing to iron out bugs. But the stresses put upon the structure of X are extraordinary. If you have never ridden X then you could have no idea of the power of this machine. The trains are absolutely massive! Although top speed is a mere 76mph it pulls high G's due to sudden changes of direction (the top of the first raven turn is unforgettable) Because of the massive forces involved, this ride probably should have been tested for another two or three months at least. In fact, I believe that is what CP will do with #16 which is a smart move.
All I can say after all this is that if more 4D's aren't built then get your butt out here to SFMM and ride X. You'll be glad you did.
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My mind works in strange ways. Yeah with a chain driven lift hill and gravity.
But a 4d is very expensive and very big, and it has a bad "track record" (pardon the pun) with maintenence and capacity issues.
Bad track record? What track record do you speak of? There has only been one built, and it *is* the prototype. Never mind that Arrow never intended to go as big as X the first time out, nor did they want to open a ride with limited capacity at a major park. At least not until Gary Story came along with visions of coaster records and promises that he didn't keep.
I also think we shouldn't be so quick to assume that other parks would or even could built a 200ft replica of X. It was custom built for SFMM and Mr. Story's ego. How many people go out and buy Jags as their first car?
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Superman:The Escape(1997-2002) May he one day fly again.
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/29/2002. ***
Well, that's true about the "bad track record" He did say with maintenence and capacity. It's not like he was saying it was unsafe, but it has had very substantial downtime and low capacity.
About the whole Gary Story/SF vs. Arrow on the thing, we don't know anything, and it's all just hearsay. They know what really went down, we don't. It could be true, it could be completely different. Let's not perpetuate rumors!
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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson
"Well, that's true about the "bad track record" He did say with maintenence and capacity. It's not like he was saying it was unsafe, but it has had very substantial downtime and low capacity".
As all prototypes do, right? The only difference here was that X was built on a world stage, in front of all of us to see. There was never a full scale test model of this ride. Why people still don't get that still baffles me.
"About the whole Gary Story/SF vs. Arrow on the thing, we don't know anything, and it's all just hearsay. They know what really went down, we don't. It could be true, it could be completely different. Let's not perpetuate rumors"!
The story behind X is pretty much public record at this point. All you have to do is look up old articles(I have most of them) about the ride with direct quotes from the people involved. There's no big secret here.
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Superman:The Escape(1997-2002) May he one day fly again.
*** This post was edited by DWeaver on 12/29/2002. ***
Although a 4d is probably one of the most (if not the most) thrilling and unique type of ride, many other parks would prefer other rides. With B&M Flyers being the new ride to clone for SF, and with Intamin being Cedar Fairs new favorite company, I doubt we will be seeing any new 4d's in the near future.
For now parks are looking for reliable rides that won't cause a maintenance issue, and a ride like X certainly isn't the best choice. Once S&S and Arrow can prove that X can be a high- capacity, low maintenance ride, then many parks will opt for a 4d.
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