Alpengeist Pilot Coach??

Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:37 PM
I was surfing around RCDB like I always do, and I noticed something on Alpengeist that I've seen before but never really thought much about it. It has a Pilot Coach type thing on there. As far as I know Alpy is the only B&M invert to have this. Is it really a pilot coach because it looks like it could have seats on it. If so, why would they take them off. It just struck me odd to see that. Anyone know the story??

http://www.rcdb.com/ig277.htm?picture=7

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 2:50 PM
I know it's from a few years ago, but check out this thread (or search the forums for "alpengeist zero car"): http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=31562

It's come up a few times and I don't think anyone's ever settled on a really good reason for why it's there.

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:16 PM
Not this again!

I've seen like a dozen topics on this on Buzz over the years,

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:25 PM
I'm sorry.. *starts crying* I've only been here for 1 year. *continues to cry*
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Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:13 PM
Wow, one of the few threads I'm actually nice in and somebody starts crying by the 4th post. Maybe I should stick to being a bithc. ;)
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Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:24 PM
The nose car will prevent the first two passenger rows from alligning, like is the case on B&M Floorless and Flying coasters. You'll notice that the individual rows thereafter will articulate freely.

Unless we heard it straight from the Engineer's mouth, I don't think any of us would be able to say whether this was a mechanically influeneced modification, or simply a cosmetic feature that Busch Gardens wanted. Or perhaps, it is neither; a leftover or undeveloped feature that was scraped. *** Edited 11/26/2005 9:27:48 PM UTC by Fun***

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:44 PM
Never John, never.... I would never cry about what you said. It was that meanie pkidelirium.

Note: end little kid raid. :)

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:56 PM
It's called a "zero car" just so you guys know. I'm surprised I have not seen this topic in a while. It seems like it use to come up more often.
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Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:34 PM

Corkscrewy said:
Never John, never.... I would never cry about what you said. It was that meanie pkidelirium.

Note: end little kid raid. :)


"Meanie" ?!?!

;)

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:18 PM
I believe it may have to do with inertia. With more weight in the front of the train, the whole train will have the tendency to continue forwards instead of falling back sooner. *** Edited 11/26/2005 11:18:53 PM UTC by sr548***
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Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:44 PM
Why not just put seats up there, then?
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:15 AM

Fun said:
The nose car will prevent the first two passenger rows from alligning, like is the case on B&M Floorless and Flying coasters. You'll notice that the individual rows thereafter will articulate freely.
That's the stupidest thing I've read. The bogie is not any mechanically different than any other car, aside from the fact that it has no trailer to another car. It has been widely speculated that the reason for the zero car is to lengthen the train, in order to allow its momentum to carry it through the giant elements.
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:31 AM
It's actually is true. Without the nose car thing, the front two cars align the whole time. Watch a batman clone right as the first two cars go on the lift. They are alligned the whole time. I do not know why this is.
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:07 AM
I'm pretty sure that all B&M trains are like this--the first two cars are linked up in such a way so that they can provide guidance for the rest of the train. The zero car on the Alpengiest trains simply takes the place of the front seat in the other trains, meaning that the zero car and front seat on Alpengiest is the same as the first and second cars on any other B&M.

You're getting confused because you're thinking of the zero car as a separate part of the train, while in reality it's identical in form and function to the rest of the cars, except that no seats are attached to it.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:08 AM
Could it be possible B&M put it there for Busch could add another row of seats? Just a thought. Although it would make more sense to have in the back, so I guess my theory is wrong.
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:02 PM
Well then, going with your theory, why wouldn't they have the seats there in the first place. Why wait to put extra seats in. Now I'm going to contradict myself by saying it could be weight issues, but I'm not sure how much difference it would really make.
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:56 PM
The first two cars are not linked rigidly. I can't tell you how many times I've sat in row two of Raptor and kicked the car in front of me as it turned out of the station and engaged the lift. Every car's center beam has a pivoting and twisting joint that connects to the car in front of them. The first car on the floorless and inverts obviously does not have the center beam extending from its front, but it's still connected to the previous car the same way any other car is. *** Edited 11/27/2005 5:56:59 PM UTC by Jeff***
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:58 PM
The joint between the "zero" car (which usually ends up having seats) and the next car can *roll* but can't yaw or pitch.
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:30 PM

Jeff said:
It has been widely speculated that the reason for the zero car is to lengthen the train, in order to allow its momentum to carry it through the giant elements.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. 300 extra lbs in the front of the train is nothing compared to the overall weight, and therefore mass of the following eight cars, filled or empty.
*** Edited 11/28/2005 1:56:38 AM UTC by Fun***

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:57 PM
If anything lengthening the train like that would give you a longer train with a center of mass more toward the rear. In a low-speed situation if the CoM doesn't crest the hill, the train won't. All you're doing by back-loading the train like that is making it more likely to roll back in a low-speed situation.

*** Edited 11/27/2005 10:58:20 PM UTC by Michael Darling***

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