Alpengeist block violations?

Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:12 PM
I was at BGW tonight, and had the best ride I've ever had in the back of Alpengeist...it was running FAST.

Anyway, while I was in line, I noticed that when dispatching the train, and the second train was waiting to be let in the station, that there was about a half second block violation going on in the station. The front of the second train was on the #8 spot (the zero car was), while the last car going up the lift had not yet cleared the #1 position, which means part of 2 trains were occupying the same block. Now, true, if the lift had stopped, there was plenty of room to stop the train coming in, but with a lift stoppage and a brake failure (yes, I know that air brakes default to the closed position), there could have been a potential collision.

I was under the impression that the computer would not allow the train to even LEAVE the previous block before the block in front of it was clear, which was clearly not the case tonight. I saw it happen 3 times, and I noted the positions of the cars precisely on the 2nd and 3rd times, and they definitely overlapped a bit. Any explination for this?

Jman

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Jman
Webmaster: Gravibulb Coasters - Home of Professional Quality Coaster Photos
http://balder.prohosting.com/gravbulb/coasters/

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:16 PM
Although, I cannot tell you much on how it works, I can tel you that I've seen this happen on other coasters. Shockwave at SFGAm comes to mind. It really suprised me that incoming train would be halfway in the station when the other had just exited the last brake.

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Raging Bull= 107

*** This post was edited by coasterzach1 on 8/1/2002. ***

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:18 PM
I have no cluewwouldent the computer not alowed the train to move like you said? maybe there is some type of loop hole,but thats a cool picture you have on ur profile showing you on a record breaking coaster then 10years later, on another record breaker at the same park, I do the same thing with my picutres.
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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:19 PM

I know that Consign has used "floating blocks" on many of their coasters, which is probably what you saw. BTR at SFOG works the same way, and SUF uses floating blocks also. Although I'm not sure of the technical details, that could be the explanation. If it was a block violation, a ride error would have occured and the ride would shut itself down.

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:22 PM

That's exactly the way Millennium Force works, where you get a half-train or less length between the moving trains. Of course, Alpengeist is so large, so long, and has such huge brake runs that if they'd ever hire a crew with a clue, they'd never stack trains anyway.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM

*** This post was edited by Jeff on 8/2/2002. ***

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:22 PM
Overlapping is common within blocks on roller coasters, however, it can cause computer problems sometimes with if proxies give a bad reading.

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Jes
Jes's Roller Coasters DJ Jes MCS Please, Feel Free To Call Me Jes!
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure 2002 Ride-Ops Crew (Have Fun Trying To Find Me!)

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:30 PM
It could also be that the sensors are pushed farther back than the end of the station. This is just a thought, but you never know,.

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http://www.islandguide.8m.com
SOB crew in twenty 02
82 SOB laps, and not tired of it yet!

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 6:32 PM
Mine Train at SFoT does it. The train from the brake run will begin to enter the station before the train exiting the station has fully exited.

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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com

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Thursday, August 1, 2002 7:44 PM
Im not to familiar with Alpengeist, but i dont really think that this would be a block violation because if only one car is not on the lift that would mean most likely the whole first train was past the dispatch brake (station) meaning the second train could come in off the brake run into the station. What i described is a normal blocking situation(1-Dispatch to lift crest, 2 lift crest to brake run and the 3rd would be the station) for your basic 2 train coaster.
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Thursday, August 1, 2002 8:04 PM
It gets really complicated on the B&M coasters that don't have brakes in the station to begin with...basically the station is divided up into a bunch of overlapping blocks...it's do-able because instead of relying on brakes, the train is positively driven through the station using the feed motors. Raptor is another good example; when those trains are stacked on the runway, if they go to dispatch the train from the station, it looks like they are moving a 24-car train!

Another place where you see that is on Gemini at Cedar Point. Apparently there are two blocks in the station, because frequently you'll see the 'next' train come into the station before the "previous" train is all the way out...but past the last brake caliper.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Friday, August 2, 2002 2:05 AM
Thanks Dave, for the technical explination. I guess it isn't as uncommon as I thought...just the first time that I've seen it. Thanks, everyone!

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Jman
Webmaster: Gravibulb Coasters - Home of Professional Quality Coaster Photos
http://balder.prohosting.com/gravbulb/coasters/

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Friday, August 2, 2002 3:37 PM

Jeff said:

That's exactly the way Millennium Force works, where you get a half-train or less length between the moving trains. Of course, Alpengeist is so large, so long, and has such huge brake runs that if they'd ever hire a crew with a clue, they'd never stack trains anyway.



Good call Jeff! It cracked me up to go to Great Adventure earlier this summer and see Batman stacking consistently with two trains while Raptor runs three and when the crew is on, the trains litterally don't stop moving except in the station. Now I realize Batman is a smaller ride, but not Alpie! Raptor's crew should be an example to any inverted crew in the country! :)

Also, about this blocking issue, blocks aren't always as simple as they appear. Millennium Force's blocks in its stations are actually very complex because if you notice, they can move all three of those trains (one behind the other) forward simultaneously. The train heading up the lift and the train in unload move up simultaneously. When they are doing it fast enough, the third train coming in doesn't stop moving and comes right into the unload station. Last time I was there, it appeared this year's crew was not getting it as consistently as last years.

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-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

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Friday, August 2, 2002 4:03 PM

I dont know if its just certian types of coasters or if its certain parks but I know CP does this on a lot of things and PKI does it on nothing. I know on SOB that when they stack teh trains( which I feel should never happen but it does all the time) the train in the station has to completely leave before the next train can even start to move. And on SOB the train has to go through another set of brakes and the turn into the station.

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