AIR is Tame
That's rediculous, sidewinder. Considering that B&M has been working on the flying coaster for almost 10 years, how could they steal it?
B&M always steals rides? They can't think of their own ideas? Where has B&M "stolen" rides from? I would love to hear some examples of your claims.
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- Peabody
It's been said many times before but apparently people just don't listen: B&M's flying coasters were in planning well before the Vekoma ride was. B&M did not steal anything from anyone else, while many companies *have* "ripped off" B&M products. Unfortunately, SiDeWiNdErCSC, your two cents is not even worth that much in the real world.
-Nate
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Nessy: Ride of Steel
Webmaster of Digital Coaster - http://digital-coaster.com
Just wanna add that of 3 flyers, Stealth, Air and Skytrak, I rode, IMO Skytrak was by far the best, was more of a 'wild mouse' flyer...!
http://www.colinm.jolt.co.uk/skytrak.htm
a 'wild bat' perhaps?...So I'm looking forward to that Zamperla.
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Just like perfection, floorless...needs no correction, floorless...like no other, floorless... absolutely floorless. The Ones.
www.colinm.com
Let's start this again, someone dissed B&M, no one can do that, and if they do lets make fun of them. Realize that everyone is entitled to opinions, and not everone shares same ideas, It is the always the same, there is a list of things you can and cannot diss. Can: Vekoma, Six Flags, Arrow (in reputation), and if they build a bad prototype, they are forever doomed, Cannot diss: B&M, Intamin,CCI,CEDAR POINT(a big one), because if you do, you are forever shamed, and everyone will whine about how you made fun of them, and stick up for them, and if one of there rides falls apart, it is not their fault, they still are the best
but IMO B&M generally overuses similar ideas, ok lets do a sitdown coaster, popularity goes down, lets just make a new car, without a floor, and use generally the same layoue. And their layouts GENERALLY lack origionality, not that they stole the ideas, but they could have used inspiration for othewr companies for INVERTED=arrow suspendeds, modified, STANDUPS= Togo, and Intamin (yes i know B&M was involved), Flying= I believe i read somewhere that Vekoma came up with the idea back in 1988, but i am not positive.
and just a reminder, this is my opinion, even thought i know i will be roasted, but i am just sick of people getting made fun of dare doubting anyone, if B&M builds it , it HAS to be good, if Vekoma, builds it has to suck (no matter how revolutionary it is.)
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welcome one and all, y'all come have a ball!
Things a bear-y fine, ridin' on the old knott's bear-y line!
AIR is just that, a family-oriented ride. The slow-looking layout gave that away. Whereas SUF looks wicked, would love to ride that.
Give Vekoma a break, they're popular with parks & the GP. Don't have to be with us enthusiasts. Aussie's inversion champ, a SLC, is reasonably smooth & a huge rush, I love it!
Anyone interested in a B&M Hyper-Flyer? I sure am! :)
If the thing is just outright more comfortable, that's good enough for me. That's the one thing I absolutely can't stand about the Vekoma model. It's just not comfortable. I'll leave it to various US parks now to ask for better layouts.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
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ROLLER COASTERS: MY ANTI DRUG
The ride looks breath taking from photos, but to me, any coaster with a fresh coat of paint looks breathtaking. Seriously though, the ride looks like a very good ride, it might not be a fast ride, but it sure appears it will flow very well.
And it will increase in speed as it wears in and the weather warms up. I have ridden coasters at different times in their life, naturally, they are slowest when the paint is fresh - more friction from the track. I would imagine it will speed up a lot more as it progresses.
To bring up a similar analogy. Think of when you were at school, how everyone used to slide down their butts on the steps railings. Naturally, you fly down the one which everyone slides down, because the steel or wood has had so many butts on it, the steel has actually smoothened and hence much more frictionless than the railing which no one slides down.
Give it some time, let it settle in and ride it for yourself before you judge the quality of it. I haven't ridden it, so I'm not about to comment on the quality of the ride.
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So what if the best coaster in Australia is a second hand Arrow?
http://www.totalthrills.com
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Al Gore - Pre Election... "These guys work for big business."
Al Gore - Present Day.... "How much does your investment firm want to pay me???
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My Top 5 Coasters:
1. Raging Bull(SFGAm) 2.Millenium Force(CP) 3. Deja Vu(SFGAm) 4.V2(SFGAm) 5.Cornball Express(IB)http://coasterworld.cjb.net
Peabody-
I was talking to a B&M employee regarding this, a Mr. Vincent Haesler to be exact, and he said that they have been doing the research for 1.5 years, can we say it again, 1 and a half years, so where is that ten year thing coming from. And yes, i might have been a little harsh by saying stealing, but i think you know what i mean (this is not only directed toward peabody, but others as well). For example, B&M takes current rides and ride advancements and works on it for theres. Lets take a look, the stand-up, originally invented by togo, but was taken by several different companies, and modified just enough to make it not illegal. Now I am not singling out just B&M, they are a wonder wonderful company, but I would like to see them do something truely unique. Like for instance, soon they will be releasing there coasters that have powered launch. Here is a little side fact, did you know that mr. walter bolliger went to S&S to check out the launch propoltion system that they have, and he offered to bye it, but S&S refused. All he will do is take what he saw, and modify it just enough to get legally by. And yes, any of you can say that this is b.s, and who is going to believe someone like me, but just wait and see. Now again I repeat, i am not just signling out B&M, this buisness is cut throat, everyone is at everyones heals for ideas and they will stop at nothing to be the first to release something, so they can be the worlds first.
Tommorow, I will reply to anyone else who has any comments, but for now, I will leave it as is.
SiDeWiNdErCSC said:
needliess quotation removed... please don't quote that which we can easily read two posts above -J
right on, there ya go peabody, your proof they *have* "stolen" something, the stand up. finally some beleiveable proof that B&M isnt all they'r cracked up to be, ive talked to some park workers and i heard that B&M's are *very* horrible to operate and that they malfunction way too often. rides may be smooth yes, but there are other issues behind those closed off borders...
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 3/17/2002. ***
John Wardley, AT and B&M started work on AIR in 1994, after the release of Nemesis. In fact the entire reason for Oblivion was to buy them four more years to work on the thing.
And actually, most parks consider B&M to be extremely reliable, no matter how smooth a coaster is, a park won't be willing to pay for it if it doesn't have good reliable systems. That is the main reason B&M can charge in excess of $15,000,000 for a moderately sized coaster.
Taipan Said:
Give Vekoma a break, they're popular with parks & the GP. Don't have to be with us enthusiasts. Aussie's inversion champ, a SLC, is reasonably smooth & a huge rush, I love it!
Actually, hate to be the bringer of ~not-so-good~ news, but Lethal Weapon is now rough. I used to think all these yanks were just softies with their nice smooth B&Ms, that they exaggerated the ears-bleeding thing and whatnot on SLCs. Well anyway, Lethal Weapon now gives nice big red sore ears on every ride. I didn't think rides could be so unbearably painful. :(
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So what if the best coaster in Australia is a second hand Arrow?
http://www.totalthrills.com
SiDeWiNdErCSC and MonkeyMaster:
As far as I know, B & M are consulting ingeneers. Do you know what that means? That means that they are consulting their costumers.with a product, to fit their park. It also means that they are willing to take up almost every job given to them. They don't manufactor the track, they don't make the trains, ´they don't do the safety and operation sytems for their coasters. All that, is done by out-house manufactors.
Air, was an idea from John Wardley. B & M only made the design of the trains and the track, they didn't have anything to do with the designing of the layout, wich is what you guys are whining about. Same goes with Oblivion...
Someone talked to Haesler? He makes most of the layout proposals for the parks. If a park wants to change the design, or even do it by their self, they are welcome. True that american parks (namely SF), don't use so much time in bringing up a uniqie layout, but please don't lame B & M for that.
About stealing designs: Someone mentoined, that Walter Bolliger tried to buy off the launch technology from S & S sports. That is also pretty normal in the industri. I remember that Vekoma has the rights to the LSM, as far as I remember. Intamin bought off the LSM when they were about to make the biggest milestone in the coaster world: Superman :The Escape.
Please don't blame B & M, for making an inovative, and tame coaster. And please don't blame them for stealing other coaster ideas. Will ya?
Jeff, what did you find uncomfortable about the Veks? I did not like being left on my back in the blazing sun waiting to get off the ride, but then, I do not like being left in prone position- its the same position as you'd be in if your head was down the toilet after a heavy night out! The rubber vest bit is comfortable, but thats not a problem with the Vekoma's either. On Air you have your ankles gripped which is a bit claustrophobic, alright if you enjoy being tied up I suppose... And just like on the Vekoma's, if you are male and don't hold yourself into position properly other bits can get in the way to. I think the pros of Air are balanced by the cons.
It was Nemesis's 8th birthday yesterday to, and she's showing signs of getting rough. For the first few hours, rows 2 and 4 had to be left empty for some reason, (fine, its opening day).
I have always been open minded to the B&M / Vek debate, and to summarise rated Vek for their innovations, and B&M for their quality. Not that B&M don't innovate, and Vekoma's can be kept fairly smooth. The floorless is good, and Medusa SFMM is one of my favourite coasters. Given that, when B&M announced the flyer, everyone(myself inc) thought it would be Stealth with quality, and its just not the case.
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Just like perfection, floorless...needs no correction, floorless...like no other, floorless... absolutely floorless. The Ones.
www.colinm.com
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