ACE coaster classics, (steels?)
- More
- 1 of 2
- 2
We know that all of the ACE coaster classics are wooden. I made a statement to ACE regarding the Whizzer at SFGAm. They said that if any steel coaster deserves such status, the Whizzer would be at the top of the list. What other steel coasters in your eyes deserve such placement?
-------------
"SAVING THE WORLD BEFORE BEDTIME" Powerpuff girls
-------------
"SAVING THE WORLD BEFORE BEDTIME" Powerpuff girls
Don't get me started on this one. I would fully support ACE granting classic status to steelies, but that isn't going to happen for a while. Today the whole Coaster Classic thing doesn't make sense anymore since more coasters are being removed from the list than being added, and the ones being added all run PTC junior trains. It's definitely time to rethink the qualifications.
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
All the corkscrews and the double loop at SFWoA should be classics. Magnum should be a classic too.
-------------
www.geocities.com/coasting_ohio for Real/Defunct/mini coasters and parks
-------------
www.geocities.com/coasting_ohio for Real/Defunct/mini coasters and parks
My understanding is that the qualifications include using those big ol' levers to brake the trains in the station, among other things: wooden coasters that are still being operated the was coasters were years ago. So when a park installs a computerized system, it gets removed from the list. Which I'm fine with, since the ride is no longer the same ride.
I think developing criteria for steel coasters and granting steel coasters such status is a good idea. I'd include looking at how long the ride has been standing (perhaps establish a minimum time that a coaster needs to have been in operation, perhaps 20 years?), also whether the ride introduced any new concepts.
I'd suggest adding Cedar Point's Corkscrew (first to incorporate loop and corkscrew), the first Arrow mine train (I think it's at Six Flags Over Texas? --but I'm not sure), certainly the Revolution at SFMM.
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
I think developing criteria for steel coasters and granting steel coasters such status is a good idea. I'd include looking at how long the ride has been standing (perhaps establish a minimum time that a coaster needs to have been in operation, perhaps 20 years?), also whether the ride introduced any new concepts.
I'd suggest adding Cedar Point's Corkscrew (first to incorporate loop and corkscrew), the first Arrow mine train (I think it's at Six Flags Over Texas? --but I'm not sure), certainly the Revolution at SFMM.
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
According to www.aceonline.org, the qualifications to be a coaster classic are Single Lap bars, No Seat Dividers, No Headrests, and No Assigned Seating. The qualifications are all in the trains. Notice nothing about seat belts or automatic safety systems. That's why coasters running PTC junior trains (Beastie, Zach's Zoomer, Stricker's Teddy Bear) have the honor and truly deserving rides like The Beast and the CP Blue Streak don't. I guess if someone builds a steelie with the right trains that too could be a classic.
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
If you read through the page again, you'll see references to design, equipment, operating procedures... criteria in addition to those specifically listed regarding the seating. The qualifications are not all in the trains.
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
The important information on the page isn't the qualifications, but rather the two paragraphs preceding it that outline the purpose of the ACE Coaster Classic designation. The point isn't to honor coasters with historical significance or that happen to be really well known. The point is to honor coasters that continue to operate in a traditional fashion and to encourage them to continue to do so.
The trains are an important part of that equation. Changes in rolling stock probably represent the biggest change in wooden coasters since back when John Miller was building them. Coasters like the CP Blue Streak have, for better or for worse, been modernized. It's simply not run the way coasters used to be, which is what the category was trying to honor.
Newer coasters like Zach's Zoomer operate in that tradition. It wouldn't be fair to ignore them simply because they've been built with younger riders in mind. You could probably even make a case that it's just as important to list them for giving a traditional experience to budding enthusiasts.
mike (goopy sentimentalist)
The trains are an important part of that equation. Changes in rolling stock probably represent the biggest change in wooden coasters since back when John Miller was building them. Coasters like the CP Blue Streak have, for better or for worse, been modernized. It's simply not run the way coasters used to be, which is what the category was trying to honor.
Newer coasters like Zach's Zoomer operate in that tradition. It wouldn't be fair to ignore them simply because they've been built with younger riders in mind. You could probably even make a case that it's just as important to list them for giving a traditional experience to budding enthusiasts.
mike (goopy sentimentalist)
"It wouldn't be fair to ignore them simply
because they've been built with younger riders in mind"
I don't find it fair to ignore a coaster's history. To me a coaster built in 1920 is far more classic then a coaster built in 1990. Even in a modified state, recognition should still be paid to the great coasters of the past. Yes, there is something to be said for a coaster that operates in a traditional manner. Perhaps it is time for two categories. A Classic coaster category with age being the main criteria and a Classicly operated coaster category with emphasis on the seat design and other factors.
aside: Is it just me or is the rule of choosing your own seat a little petty? That kind of operation does not require any modification to the coaster itself.
because they've been built with younger riders in mind"
I don't find it fair to ignore a coaster's history. To me a coaster built in 1920 is far more classic then a coaster built in 1990. Even in a modified state, recognition should still be paid to the great coasters of the past. Yes, there is something to be said for a coaster that operates in a traditional manner. Perhaps it is time for two categories. A Classic coaster category with age being the main criteria and a Classicly operated coaster category with emphasis on the seat design and other factors.
aside: Is it just me or is the rule of choosing your own seat a little petty? That kind of operation does not require any modification to the coaster itself.
Let me try this again. This is a copy of the guidelines straight off of www.aceonline.org...
Other than the seat selection requirement, that sounds like the trains to me.
I'm all for preserving and promoting the classics out there, but I say the list shouldn't be this exclusive. There are plenty of worthwhile coasters out there, including steel, that should receive this honor.
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
To be eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status, the coaster must meet the following criteria:
The coaster must use traditional lap bars that allow riders to experience so-called airtime, or negative G's (that sensation of floating above the seat!!). Individual, ratcheting lap bars do not meet this requirement.
The coaster cannot use bucket seats or seat dividers. Instead, ACE Coaster Classics allow riders to slide from side-to-side.
ACE Coaster Classics allow riders to view the upcoming drops and thrills. Coasters with headrests on every seat, or the majority of seats, restrict this view and are not eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status.
On ACE Coaster Classics, riders are free to choose where they sit. Some parks' operating procedures assign seating; these coasters are not eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status.
Other than the seat selection requirement, that sounds like the trains to me.
I'm all for preserving and promoting the classics out there, but I say the list shouldn't be this exclusive. There are plenty of worthwhile coasters out there, including steel, that should receive this honor.
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Let's do try this again.
"If you read through the page again, you'll see references to design, equipment, operating procedures... criteria in addition to those
specifically listed regarding the seating. The qualifications are not all in the trains."
Cedar Point added new and different trains, introduced a computerized system, etc, to Blue Streak, rendering it ineligible by ACE's rules to be a Coaster Classic.
You seem to be focusing on the criteria you quoted as the sole means for defining a Coaster Classic.
If you feel that strongly about this, shouldn't you be contacting your Regional Rep, the Preservation Director, or the Executive Committee rather than a Coasterbuzz forum?
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
"If you read through the page again, you'll see references to design, equipment, operating procedures... criteria in addition to those
specifically listed regarding the seating. The qualifications are not all in the trains."
Cedar Point added new and different trains, introduced a computerized system, etc, to Blue Streak, rendering it ineligible by ACE's rules to be a Coaster Classic.
You seem to be focusing on the criteria you quoted as the sole means for defining a Coaster Classic.
If you feel that strongly about this, shouldn't you be contacting your Regional Rep, the Preservation Director, or the Executive Committee rather than a Coasterbuzz forum?
-------------
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
CP didn't add any new trains to the Blue Streak, they changed the restraints and seats. They did that back in 1996 I believe. The new brakes and controls were added in 1994, but the trains were still using the single lap bar and low-back benches. When CP changed the trains, ACE revoked the status. As far as I know, there are lots of classics out there running with modern control systems, like all the Paramount juniors on the list.
Yes I am focusing on the the criteria as the sole means. How else can you explain a ride like Zach's Zoomer, built in 1994, make the list where other rides far more important historically are not on the list?
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
Yes I am focusing on the the criteria as the sole means. How else can you explain a ride like Zach's Zoomer, built in 1994, make the list where other rides far more important historically are not on the list?
-------------
Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
I think this whole debate warrants another category. Something along the lines of a "hall of fame," but I certainly wouldn't use that phrase in this case because it's not quite fitting enough.
Why not just have ACE members vote on what coasters should go into the "hall of fame"? Put a time requirement on it, say 15 or 20 years. So, when 15 or 20 years has passed since a coaster originally opened, it's eligible for induction. Members vote, and the top 4 or 5 vote-getters are inducted.
(Note: Personally, I sort of agree with ACE's requirements to be "classic." Why shouldn't it be all about the trains? I mean, that's the part we feel, isn't it?
...bah. I don't know.)
-------------
Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
Why not just have ACE members vote on what coasters should go into the "hall of fame"? Put a time requirement on it, say 15 or 20 years. So, when 15 or 20 years has passed since a coaster originally opened, it's eligible for induction. Members vote, and the top 4 or 5 vote-getters are inducted.
(Note: Personally, I sort of agree with ACE's requirements to be "classic." Why shouldn't it be all about the trains? I mean, that's the part we feel, isn't it?
...bah. I don't know.)
-------------
Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
slithernoggin said:
"Cedar Point added new and different trains, introduced a computerized system, etc, to Blue Streak, rendering it ineligible by ACE's rules to be a Coaster Classic."
The computerized system had nothing to do with it. It was the modifications that they made to the trains (ratcheting lap bars, seat belts) that caused it to lose its Classic status.
slithernoggin said:
"You seem to be focusing on the criteria you quoted as the sole means for defining a Coaster Classic."
That's because that is the criteria -- he quoted it verbatim from the ACE website. If you are referring to the part where it says "...but subsequent equipment, design, or operating procedures changes...", I think you're reading too much in to it. If a change is made to the control system or the brakes, does that affect any of the criteria? No. If a single lap bar is changed to individuallly ratcheting ones, or they start assigning seats, does that affect the criteria? Yes.
To be eligible for ACE Coaster Classic status, the coaster must meet the following criteria:
The coaster must use traditional lap bars that allow riders to experience so-called airtime, or negative G's (that sensation of floating above the seat!!). Individual, ratcheting lap bars do not meet this requirement.
Sorry, but IMO this is a load of crap. As if you cant get 'airtime' with individual ratcheting bars. I understand that they prefer two person bars, but the way it is stated makes the claim seem invalid. One of you ACE members should point that out to your higher ups.
jeremy
- More
- 1 of 2
- 2
You must be logged in to post
