A question about loops

Tuesday, August 6, 2002 11:35 AM
During loops, what keeps you in your seat other than the restraints, is it the centripetal force or the positive g's?

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If god was a coaster- I would be a rabbi.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 11:41 AM
G's and force are the same thing. It's all about acceleration. Positive Gs are created by a "positive" acceleration which is caused by the centripetal. All in all, its your tendancy to move in a straight line which keeps you in the seat (which is why lap bars are possible on sit-down loops, because you have the entire train to keep you from traveling in the straight line that your momentum is carrying you on)

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Steel - #1 Kumba, #2 Millie, #3 Mantis ||| Wood - #1 Thunderbolt, #2 Villain, #3 Gwazi
"The key to a happy life is moderation" -- Jon Stewart

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 11:53 AM
In a loop, there is centripetal acceleration. One "G" is equal to the acceleration due to earth's gravity. Centripetal force is the resultant force that keeps you in your seat (Force = Mass x Acceleration).

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My two favorite coasters are named Superman.
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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 12:03 PM
All of the above is correct. The actual forces at the top of the loop depend on the exact design of the loop. Some loops are so smooth and keep enough positive G's at the top that you wouldn't eve know you've been through a loop with your eyes closed. A few others, most notably Batwing, allow you to go into negative Gs at the top so that you drop onto the harness.
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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 12:16 PM

Isn't Batwing a clone of X-Flight? I've always found X-Flight's loop to have some of the most intense positive G's in any loop ... makes it more fun in my opinion.

Edit: most intense positive Gs in a loop that's still standing ... Steel Phantom forever ;)

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Steel - #1 Kumba, #2 Millie, #3 Mantis ||| Wood - #1 Thunderbolt, #2 Villain, #3 Gwazi
"The key to a happy life is moderation" -- Jon Stewart

*** This post was edited by PittDesigner on 8/6/2002. ***

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 1:56 PM

PittDesigner, I'm sorry to see you changed your steel favorites around. That likely leaves me as the only one here who thinks Mantis is the best thing ever built with steel...but I must agree that the Kumba is an awesome ride.

That edit brings up an interesting question: What coaster had (or still has) the most positive G's ever? My clueless guess would be Taz's TX Tornado or possible SFGAm's Shockwave.

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PLEASE READ: This post wasn't meant to offend or anger anyone; I apologize in advance if it does. So please don't post a reply just to rant about it. :)

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:05 PM
I thought on TV it said Steel Phantom had a max of 3.5 Gs. That isn't that many or am I wrong.

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www.EverythingRollerCoaster.com

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:07 PM
Texas Tornado pulls the most G's out of any coaster in existance, the ride pulls the 6.5+ g's in between the first 2 loops, since the radius on the pull out is so tiny.

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:23 PM

A coaster with a particularly intense loop is the Mindbender: an indoor coaster, in Alberta Canada I belive. It pulls 5Gs on the third loop! Pretty intense!!

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:28 PM
6.5Gs wow!!!! Are you sure! Its probably only sustained for a very brief period, but even Oblivion doesn't pull that comming sharply out of a vertical drop! What does that 'shaft of terror' ride in south Africa pull on the way out of its vertical drop; it looks higher than oblivion and has a tighter run-out radius. It looks mad!!! Has anyone ridden it?????
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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:31 PM
I believe that pulls 6.2 Gs

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www.EverythingRollerCoaster.com

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 2:47 PM

And I thought the 4.5 g's on S:RoS's ( SFNE ) helixes intense. How intense does texas tornado feel?

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 3:08 PM

Steel Phantom couldn't hold a candle to most Antons in G forces. The most G's I have felt on any Arrow would be on SFGAM's Shockwave. The only Arrow that I consider intense to the max and worth multiple re-rides.

Chuck, who may be strange but really enjoyed our 9 consecutive rides on Shockwave on night one of our visit.

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Charles Nungester.
Visit Lesourdsville Lake :) Park phone is (513)539-2193

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 3:10 PM

Nessy: ROS said:
Texas Tornado pulls the most G's out of any coaster in existance, the ride pulls the 6.5+ g's in between the first 2 loops, since the radius on the pull out is so tiny.

To the best of my knowledge, Texas Tornado isn't pulling anything right now.

Chuck, who says why'd they have to go and do something stupid?

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Charles Nungester.
Visit Lesourdsville Lake :) Park phone is (513)539-2193


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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 5:57 PM
How many G's did the old Flip Flop pull before it flapped? Weren't those G's very high due to the circle, not teardrop loop?
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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 7:42 PM

Sorry StandUpFan - I'll still back ya up on any Mantis arguement, but Kumba was just too darn good!! :) And I never meant to say Steel Phantom had high Gs, even though my park experience is limited, just my memory of it is a very strong ride through that first loop

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 7:53 PM
Is there not a difference between Centripetal and Centrifugal. It is hard for me to imagine how centripetal forces would keep one in their seat.

Centripetal forces move toward the center or axis, centrifugal forces move away.

In most cases, it seems that it would be centrifugal force that keeps us in our seats on coasters with "loops", not Centripetal.
(at least that is how I understand it)

*** This post was edited by James K on 8/6/2002. ***

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Tuesday, August 6, 2002 8:31 PM

Its either one or the other of those two forces that doesn't actually exist, its a "human" created force. I think it is centrifugal (outward) which actually exists ... centripetal is nothing more than the "equal and opposite reaction" of your butt with the seat, reacting to the centrifugal force.

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Steel - #1 Kumba, #2 Millie, #3 Mantis ||| Wood - #1 Thunderbolt, #2 Villain, #3 Gwazi
"The key to a happy life is moderation" -- Jon Stewart

*** This post was edited by PittDesigner on 8/7/2002. ***

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Wednesday, August 7, 2002 1:23 AM

Neither are true forces.

Centrifugal force are forces that will move outward during a circular motion. This is the force of your body trying to continue in a straight line, as Newton's First Law of motion described.

Centripetal forces are forces that move toward the center of the circle. On coasters, this force is the mechanical force of the track being in a rigid circular shape.

Think of it like this. If you tie a washer to a fishing line, and spin it around, the circular shape is caused by two things. One - the washer wanting to continue traveling a straight line (centrifugal), and two - the wire pulling it in towards the centre.

These two forces are perfectly balanced, as is the case with all action/reaction forces, as described in Newton's Third Law.

So, there is theoretically no unbalanced force acting on the body, so you'll continue going how you were as defined by the centripetal force (in a circular motion, or in most coaster's, in the clothoid shape).

Basically, the whole centripetal and centrifugal force things were invented by humans to simplify the whole matter. :)

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So what if the best coaster in Australia is a second hand Arrow?

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Wednesday, August 7, 2002 7:02 AM

The irony is that the over-the shoulder restraints really aren't all that necessary. When you're at the top of the loop, there is actually more force pushing you down in your seat (or up into your seat, depending on your point of view) than when the coaster is sitting in the station right-side-up. You're in no danger of falling out. Quite the contrary! You're in danger of passing out as all the blood flows out of your brain and into your feet!

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