4D is to Arrow what Inverts are to B&M

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 8:54 PM
After thinking on it for a bit, I think that the 4th dimension coaster will be Arrows staple product.  Yes, they can and will make other products, but I think that the 4D may end up in quite a few parks.

To give an example, look at B&M and their inverted coasters.  They pretty much invented them, and now they are a type of ride that can be found in nearly every large, thrill oriented park. 

I just feel like this is what arrow will be concentrating on for a while, at least until they can sell an ArrowBatic, which I think will really validate their comeback.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:13 PM
If that is true, I fear what Vekoma will do when they start producing their rip off of the 4-d (just like how Vekoma ripped off B&M with their version of the inverted coaster).

I actually think that the 4-D will revolutionize the roller coaster industry helping save Arrow from any financial problems. I think the 4-d will not be a fad, unlike B&M's inverted and floorless, but the new standard for coasters.
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Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:16 PM
But even if vekoma rips off the design, will it be as good as the original?

Look at the SLC.  They didn't exactly improve on the B&M design.  Thats how I think it would be if anyone tried to copy the 4D design of arrow.

And inverts aren't just a fad.  They are a viable form of coasters for the present and future.  Floorless aren't too special, just a different sitdown train.  But inverts are in their own little category.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:16 PM
I very much disagree on B&M Inverts being a fad.
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Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:36 PM
Although I have not ridden X yet, I imagine it does have the potential mentioned above.  (I also strongly disagree about Inverts and floorles coasters being a fad!)
There is one big problem I see with it achieving that..... price.  Look at the size, tremendous amount of steel for it's size, and complexity of the trains.  This is not your average coaster.  While no official price tag for X has been released (that I know of), it must be pretty pricey. 
(Comparing it to B&M inverts still....) the current crop is still not that pricey.  Batman clones run about $10 million currently, and the newest one, Talon, was $12.  X must have cost MUCH more than that, and with that there are probably not that many parks that will shell out the $ for one at the current size and scope. 
Does anyone have a solid, confirmed price for X, like printed in a publication like Amusement Buisness?  (Not "I heard it cost..." or "A person at SFMM told me it cost....", etc.)
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- Peabody

*** This post was edited by Peabody on 12/27/2001. ***

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Wednesday, December 26, 2001 11:24 PM
I think we'll only see 4D's when a park wants a BIG investment.  Not when they want something like a Talon or a "Batgirl"(hehe).  Catch my drift?  I think we'll see them come along when a park wants a Montu or an Alpengeist.  How strange that I used all B&M's.

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Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:51 AM
Compared to many of the ride costs out there, the 4d is really a bargain. Jeeze, X was $14mill and that is a lot of ride.

Since Vekoma did the Flying Dutchman, i seriously doubt they will try a 4d design

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Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:48 PM
4D is a little too different to just copy from company to company.

I can't see a B&M 4th dimension coaster or whatever.

But I do agree with DDFire19.  Big parks will buy them for a blockbuster new ride.  I think that especially with the GP, the 4th dimension will create a real buzz.  Look how excited they were about deja vu....

People are attracted to rides that are visually incredible.  Thats why X has so much potential with the GP.

At Knotts, people just stare at Vertigo.  Big crowds watch every blast off...

So anyway, I think that the 4th dimension coaster will be arrow's premiere product that they offer.

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Thursday, December 27, 2001 1:11 PM
I still think that the next 4D will open overseas, I have no idea why.  Hopefully Arrow will be able to sell ArrowBatics also now that X is open.
Okay, well back to the subject. An Invert/Suspended coaster can be found for a lower price (i.e. Invertigo) than a 4D will be. Arrow may be able to create a smaller scale 4D, maybe one with not so tall drop or maybe longer, depending on the terrain.
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Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:43 PM
Yeah, 14 million for X was not a bad deal, but remember, X was the first. SF took a big risk, and looks well worth it. But, look at prototypes such as the Space Diver, aka Flashback at SFMM. I think that 4-Ds will go up a little in price. Anyone know what Batman at SFGAm cost?
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Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:54 PM
Wouldn't the price go down since the design is in a proven stage?
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Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:10 PM
yeah I agree with bigkirby why would it go up?
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Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:13 PM
Nothing to back this up, but maybe SFMM got a deal for having the prototype first 4th dimension coaster.

I could see them raising the price, and if its a good ride, then they have every right to do so.

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Xcelerator-
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Friday, December 28, 2001 5:31 AM
The price will.......go DOWN.  A ton of engineering and design costs that are included in the prototype are "one-time" costs that do not need to be incurred again.  Same for a lot of the technology costs.  The company will probably sell future 4D coasters a LITTLE cheaper than X, and the costs of production will go down "moderately".  The difference between the two is called....PROFIT.

Oh, and Arrow will continue to fund R&D...Fishhook may not be built - YET, but Arrowbatic probably will be - SOON.  Sure X had some significant delays, but it IS a significant leap in coaster design...

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Friday, December 28, 2001 10:41 AM

john peck said:
Compared to many of the ride costs out there, the 4d is really a bargain. Jeeze, X was $14mill and that is a lot of ride.
Since Vekoma did the Flying Dutchman, i seriously doubt they will try a 4d design

I thought it was $12,000,000.

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