$15 to park at SFMM!

$15 is insane for parking. $10 is enough.

Let's just hope that with these increases, the park will see more improvments.

After all, wouldn't you like to see your extra $5 for parking go for reopening things like Flashback or the Metro at SFMM?

It may not happen but it is possible.

... and then there is the HFEC parks in Branson which STILL have FREE parking!

Still amazes me that you guys truly think any park has free parking. The money needed to maintain parking facilities is simply rolled into the ticket price.

In fact, you're probably paying more for free parking if you visit with more than 2 people.

What amazes me is that people are shocked and/or surprised at the price increases. The writing was on the wall long before Snyder was triumphant.

Yeah, but there's a difference--people expected the old Six Flags regime to milk them for every dollar, whereas with all of Snyder's talking about making the parks more family-friendly and better customer service, the last thing anyone thought they'd do is jack up the price by $45 for a family of four in one week. That's not customer service, that's treating your guests like piggy banks with legs.

I believe that guests will be more responsive to the price increases than some people think. Unlike Disney and Universal, which will see record attendance regardless of the price, most Six Flags parks are not resorts--people will not travel far distances and stay overnight to visit one of their parks. There are many Six Flags parks that reside in areas where competition lies within driving distance, and I think many families will be seriously wondering if $45 is worth visiting their Six Flags when they can easily drive to another park. Like Jeff keeps pointing out in the Podcast, it's all about perceived value--sure, the cost of visiting Magic Mountain is the same as Knott's now, but what you get with your money isn't the same. Enthusiasts aren't the only ones that realize that SFMM and many other Six Flags parks are run like garbage, so the "they cost the same" trick isn't going to work.

There's a reason why people flock to stores when they can save $5 dollars on a shirt and visit restaurants they usually don't visit when they have a coupon. In the big picture, $5 is nothing, but people find satisfaction knowing that they received a value. When guests start to visit the website of their local SF park and see that parking costs $15 dollars and admission went up by $10, they are going to notice, and I guarantee you that many people will be second-guessing their decisions to visit the park. It's all about the principle--it's the same park they visited last year, yet suddenly it costs them $45 more. You can throw as many new ad campaigns and customer service primises at them as you'd like, but money speaks louder than words--prove to your guests their visits are worthwhile before you start to raise the prices.

Thats why they have season parking passes for 30 bucks. I buy a SFNE and a SFGradv parking pass every year because those are the 2 SF parks I go to most often. Stop complaining and just don't go you will not be missed. Less people in ride lines is better for me.

... and less people in line means longer dispatch times (make sure that trains are completely full!) which means less employees required to check the bars cause they don't have to hit intervals. Less dispatches means less moving parts in an hour, which means less wear and tear, which means less maintenance costs, which means less mechanics required ...

... every single move done by Snyder and Co. boils down to one thing - Six Flags' profitability will be increasing expoentially in the coming 2-3 years.

Now what'll happen in 2-3 years when no one wants to go anymore? Well, since there's been no roller coasters (i.e. - major capital spending) most of the money brought in has gone towards paying down debt. Now lets see, you've got what, 20+ large properties, many near large cities with booming populations, full of steel which is easily melted down and sold for profit ... and you owe very little to nothing? Now what? For sale, at 100% profit (minus realtor fees).

Not saying that they're actually going to do that, but then again, I've never seen someone so blatently only interested in shareholder value at the expense of any sort of customer service. Why should Dan Snyder care if there's a roller coaster park for anyone to visit as long as he's a billionaire? *** Edited 1/20/2006 10:29:04 PM UTC by Impulse-ive***

BINGO...Impulse! I've nothing more to add! There is nothing else it could be. Otherwise he would have fixed the problem/reputation first...THEN raised the prices!

So if SF had hidden the parking fee like HW, LC, KW and others with 'free' parking do, everyone would be ok with it?

It's a semantics thing. It doesn't mater where you fill the money into the P&L sheet, each person has to bring a certain number of dollars into the park to be worth it (for any park), how they divvy up the numbers is irrelevant.

Seriously, how would everyone feel if they had raised the price at a park like SFGAdv or SFMM just another $5, but coupled that with a huge campaign about 'free' parking?

Maybe instead of thinking of it as paying $15 to leave your car with nothing in return, we should think of it as $5 off of every ticket after the 3rd is purchased. ;)

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So if SF had hidden the parking fee like HW, LC, KW and others with 'free' parking do, everyone would be ok with it?

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Ah, but perception is reality! If people *think* they are getting good value, then by definition they are. And, when you get "freebies", you think you're getting a good value, whether or not it's objectively true.

To illustrate: I'm one of those heathens who never stays on site when I visit WDW. This year, for example, I'm staying in a 3BR/3BA townhouse, with a private pool, equipped kitchen, washer/dryer, 42" plasma TV + AV center, the full line of premium movie and sports channels, broadband wireless, and a PS2/DVD library. The resort in which this townhouse is located has a free-form pool with a waterslide, fitness center, and tennis courts. Cost? $110 per night, including taxes. It's a 5 minute drive to Animal Kingdom (the closest), and 12 minutes to the Magic Kingdom/TTC lots (the farthest).

"But" my Disneyphile friends say, "if you stay onsite, you get free parking. You get free transportation. You get extra time in the morning or evening in the theme parks. You get 'Disney magic'. How can you pass that up?"

Well, here's how. My townhouse costs the same as a single 240 sq ft room in the chepeast of Disney resorts. After the AAA discount. Where there isn't even a hot tub by the pool, let alone a fully-equipped kitchen and a 42" plasma screen tv. If I wanted "equivalent" onsite lodging, I'd need a Grand Villa in one of the DVC timeshare resorts---and the maintenance fees alone on the size of share necessary to do that are $300/night in the oldest and least expensive DVC property, let alone the $35,000 and change I'd need to buy in.

In contrast, theme park parking is all of $9/day. I don't mind driving (in fact I hate busses). And, the last place I want to be is in the theme park with nearly everyone else staying in one of Disney's tens of thousands of hotel rooms---I'll pick one of the other three that day, thanks.

Yet, somehow, DVC properties are selling like hotcakes, despite the fact that Orlando is literally lousy with private pool homes that go begging each and every week. Why? Because of all the "perks" and the "service". People *believe* there is a value there, despite the fact that, purely economically, it's awfully hard to argue the value proposition.

Put another way: even if Althoff had to pay an extra $15 for his ticket to get into the park with "free parking", he'd still be a happier and more satisfied customer than if they charged him $15 less for the ticket, and $15 to park.

*** Edited 1/21/2006 12:52:08 AM UTC by Brian Noble***

^Hence why Silver Dollar City and Holiday World have Applause Awards!!! (two parks with FREE parking)

I do not believe there is a single SixFlags park that has received one (if one ever does I will be surprised). IMHO I think raising the ticket price isntead of the parking is the way to go. However since they are raising both it is almost cutting off your nose to spite your face.

FYI, SFA season parking passes are $40 for one car, $50 for two... anyone wanna chip in with me for the two pass deal? ($25 a pass compared with $40 buying them seperate...)

There are ways to beat the system. Ever notice that there's a metro bus stop right in front of SFA?

I just want to correct someone earlier who I think was implying Lake Compounce has no parking charge. Sadly, that would be incorrect. I think it was $6 in '04.

Ok, so Knoebels may have free parking and I love the place to death, but they don't offer what a big park does. There's that tradeoff. You can't get POP admission on the majority of weekends, meaning that you're spending a lot of money on tickets, which adds up real quick. You won't find any B&Ms or Intamins here. There's no multi-million dollar white-water rapids ride.

It's actually not that cheap a place either once you've purchased the wood coaster option during the week (hopefully three this year which might jack up the price again). The waterpark is extra to get in, the chairlift is extra (it was $3), the Haunted Mansion is extra (it was $1.20 last year). You could also factor in that the park is in the middle of nowhere (sorry Coasterpunk:)), and since it's all back roads with some pretty steep inclines and declines once you're off I-81, you're probably not doing all that great on fuel economy.

So while I too think $15 is out-of-line, I'm just pointing out that the free parking does show up somewhere else, either in what you pay, or what you can experience.

Professor Noble said, on page 3:

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Put another way: even if Althoff had to pay an extra $15 for his ticket to get into the park with "free parking", he'd still be a happier and more satisfied customer than if they charged him $15 less for the ticket, and $15 to park.

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I've been saying that for years. And consider something else. If I were to visit the park in the same manner as a fairly large number of people, this move might actually extract MORE money out of me even without the influence of my attitude walking into the park. Why? Because if they do it that way, I've got more cash in my poke when I walk into the park. I just used plastic to buy my ticket (with parking included), so I still have that sawbuck that I had to spend on parking last year. The park still got the money, but I've still got the cash.

That means I can buy a pretzel and a frozen Coke this time that I couldn't afford last time 'cause they cleaned me out at the parking lot. Ever notice that I tend not to advocate 'free parking' but rather than I frequently advocate '"free" parking'? A subtle but important difference!

It's all about them getting their money out of my pocket. To do that, they have to make me want to give it to them.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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I just want to correct someone earlier who I think was implying Lake Compounce has no parking charge. Sadly, that would be incorrect. I think it was $6 in '04.

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Ahhh, you're right. I was thinking the free drinks thing. Same concept. They're not free at all.

But the convenience and appearance of FREE does more for the bottome line than the five dollar drinks.

Don't believe me? Look at their attendance! It's not all to do with what they've added but how guest feel about their visits.

Chuck, who considered LC almost dead when we were two of the 50 guest inside the park in 2001.

I agree, Chuck. In fact, that was kind of my point in the first place. (way back wherever I first brought it up in this thread)

I fully subscribe to the "Teachings of Althoff" when it comes to gate price.

That price will really suck for those going to the park alone or with immediate family. However, a group of 4 people comes out to less than $3.75 a piece to park. Not so bad. Time to go back to the old days of getting a group together to head out to the park. That's something I usually do anyway, Six Flags or no Six Flags.

Also it should be mentioned that if you purchase the Xtreme pass for $125, you get free parking all year long. Sounds like that's the way to go.

I could sit around moaning all day about rising prices, but that doesn't change anything. I either find a way to make it work, or I don't go. *** Edited 1/21/2006 5:58:00 AM UTC by DWeaver***

Intamin is right about Knoebels. They don't have what a lot of the big parks have. I've never had the experience many of you have had standing in the queue of a broken down coaster for 2, 3, 5, or more hours hoping it will open.

Pity my poor friend. Last summer we ate at the Alamo, and for 10 bucks or so all he got was 2 grilled pork chops, potato, vegetable, a cup of soup and a drink. It's no pretzel and a slushie, but he managed somehow. And it was almost chilly sitting in that air-conditioned restaurant coming in from 95 degrees outside.

Intamin's right about the tickets adding up too. That will happen when you ride Phoenix 3 times within half an hour. At the big parks in half an hour, you move one or two queue lines, and it doesn't cost you a penny.

My own personal perceived value meter is cost per ride. I figure out how much I paid for admission or tickets, and divide that by the number of rides I got. So this year, I'll think about this free parking that's not really free while I munch on a funnel cake ($2.50).

^ and RGB says *Snap* :)