Ark Encounter tax incentives in jeopardy over alleged restrictive religious hiring practices

Jeff said:

The Hobby Lobby case centered more around what benefits they were required to offer based on the company's beliefs (which I still think is f'd up because companies aren't people).

As someone else said, I'll start believing Corporations are people when Texas executes one.

I'm not sure I'd say societies make value judgements every day -- rather, I think societies reach a consensus regarding value judgements: we can agree on broad statements while not agreeing about the details.

As for how couples view the sanctity of marriage: my starting point is that each and every couple's views of the topic are valid. I make judgement calls on a case by case basis :-)

When Newt Gingrich comes along, presuming to address the sanctity of marriage, with his multiple marriages, predilection for adultery and fondness for announcing his intention to seek divorces from women who are in hospital beds.... I call shenanigans. He has no respect for the sanctity of marriage and no business criticizing others on the topic.

It's simple. My right to marry is a civil right, not a religious one. You don't want us in your church? Fine. Everyone's still safe, as we wouldn't darken the door there anyway. We'll choose a church that's accepting or trot ourselves down to the courthouse. And Chik-fil-A will not be catering the brunch afterward.

I bet if you google "dicketry", Coasterbuzz is referenced in at least two of the top ten listings.

GoBucks89 said:
You helped prove my point. One, you don't buy it. Does that mean someone who does is wrong? On what basis?

You're making a total strawman argument. What I agree with doesn't matter, it's if I attempt to impose my will on others that does. In fact, that's why I used murder as an example. Someone can think murder is OK, but it ceases to be when it affects someone else (i.e., they murder someone).

But it seems to me to be arrogant to say my view must be correct and anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely and totally wrong.

Again, who cares? Being an arrogant dick is pretty much the American way, and we've got 200 years of history to show that. But being a dick and imposing it on others by preventing them to live their lives as they see fit is the issue. That isn't even a subtle difference to me (belief vs. imposition).

Personally, I'm not for gay marriage because of where I stand on my beliefs. However, I don't want to impose my views on others who do not share my same point of view.

Gay or not, if you believe in God, then you know that according to Romans 3:23, for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Romans3:10, As it is written, None is righteous, no, not one.

If you believe in the one true God, then you have to know that we are all sinners saved by grace. God does not view one sin as greater than another.

And that's exactly why I became so uninterested in Christianity as the years went on. The whole, "I'm a jerk like everyone else and I should be thankful God likes me at all" thing seems like an awful way to live. People can exhibit humility without guilt.

CreditWh0re said:

As someone else said, I'll start believing Corporations are people when Texas executes one.

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see one contract Ebola... ;)

All that it says it that no one is perfect except God. I know that for me, it makes me appreciate everything positive in my life and not to be overwhelmed when the hardships come.

It says we have a tendency to want the wrong things and want to do the wrong things. But, when we do these things, we can ask forgiveness from God because he loved us, even to the point of death.

If there was no guilt at all, then you have a world where no one can define what is right or wrong because it would solely depend on who you are talking to. You can't just go with if it feels right, do it.

The last commandment that Jesus gave was for us to love others as we love ourselves. Don't just pass by or not get involved when people need help when you are able to help.

Many so called Christians forget that part where it says to treat others as superior to you.

It's also stated to esteem (consider) others better than yourself, not superior to you.

You know that preaching to people who don't share your beliefs is not particularly constructive, right?

Sorry, Jeff. I wasn't really attempting to preach to anyone.

I was just meaning to clarify.

Quit B'stin by B's, man!

RCMAC said:

It's simple. My right to marry is a civil right, not a religious one. You don't want us in your church? Fine. Everyone's still safe, as we wouldn't darken the door there anyway.

But many Christians believe that by being gay, you are somehow causing terrorism and natural disasters. They believe that you ARE causing them to not be safe. These dickhead preachers have found a way to convince people that by "allowing" gays to live a happy, open life, they are magically causing them pain, somehow. It's all so stupid. lol

What I was trying to do was agree with Jeff and give a Biblical explanation. It was with the whole imposing your will on others because you're not perfect yourself.

LostKause said:

But many Christians believe that by being gay, you are somehow causing terrorism and natural disasters. They believe that you ARE causing them to not be safe.

They're not believing that because Jesus told them to (*if* they're even believing it themselves)...not by a long, long shot. These preachers do it for the money...and for the love of money. Pretty sure the Bible (and most religious texts) had something to say about THAT as well.

If you esteem someone as better than yourself, that means you treat them superior...the words are synonyms...

In majority rules societies, various groups of people typically impose their will on everyone else. Its not only common but as a practical matter, necessary. From my experience, folks who are cool with the results of the imposition have a tendency to be cool with the imposition (and often times do not even see an imposition but rather a matter of doing right). And folks who are not cool with the results of the imposition have a tendency to not be cool with the imposition (often times complaining that others cannot impose their will on me).

Primary limitation of majority rules are the rights of the minority. Though we have a long history of evolution of rights and limited thereon. As such there isn't much of a consensus and reasonable minds will differ.

There are a whole host of things that we do that affect others that are not limited or restricted. There is typically some level of affect which must be met before limited/restrictions come into play. The determination of those levels are often contested. Lines must be drawn (ie value judgments). Often times those lines are drawn for political reasons, are arbitrary, etc.

In situations where there is a consensus, mantras like "don't be a dick" and "treat others as they want to be treated" are often unnecessary. And in situations that are contested, they are often unhelpful.

I'll stir the pot. :)

I've set the link to a specific point in the act. (apparently I can't change the URL with a time reference here on CB, so enjoy the whole act.)

Warning, as is with Old George. NSFW

While I do not agree with everything George Carlin says, I love and appreciate what he has to say.

LostKause said:
But many Christians believe that by being gay, you are somehow causing terrorism and natural disasters.

To me -- and I am, admittedly, a flaming liberal godless gay homosexual -- there are Christians and there are "Christians".

There are Christians like, I think, our friend B'ster B here, who may not approve of the choices others make, but respect that the persons making those choices are acting in accordance with their beliefs and deserve respect.

And then there are "Christians", who, I think, seek to cloak their bigotry with religion. If it turns out that they're right and I'm wrong, and there is a Heaven and a Hell, I can take solace in knowing where they'll end up. It only takes four letters to spell it.

Thank you Slithernoggin. As a matter of fact, I'd rather not be called a Christian at all. I see myself more as a disciple of Christ.

Tekwardo, in the passage that we are discussing, it is important to understand the context in which the word is used. To esteem others better than yourself means to put their needs above yours. Superior is a reference to rank.