Cedar Point sued in Dragster incident

This I must say has been a thought provoking thread. There's some good arguments here.

The only thing I have to say about the car example is that you have control of the car. I move the steering wheel and apply the brake. I decide on when to maintain the car. You don't have control over a coaster. I can't set when the ride launches or check out the launch drive train on my own. This is where the park or manufacturer has to take responsibility.

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I still fail to see why individual responsibilty doesn't exist. It's up to me to make choices and when one doesn't go as planned, who's to blame?

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When a mechanism doesn't operate the way it was originally designed to or if something unplanned in the design happens, the blame has to go to who designed it or maintained it. I'm sure Dragster was not designed to have a cable snap. If it was, a part of the design should have had something to help prevent the snapped cable from hitting its riders. I guess I see no other way around it. If you ask me, $50,000 isn't such a bad lump of cash for such an incident. It could have been a lot higher.

Again, just my view on things. I appreciate the discussion.

Jonathan Smith

I work in a government building. We have a ceiling grid with lights and tiles. That grid is not designed to fall down. But, if it did and bonked someone on the head hard enough to cause an injury, no matter how minor, you can be sure someone would sue.

In fact, as a City we get sued pretty often. If a sidewalk buckles due to a tree root popping it and someone trips over it, we will get sued. We have people routinely checking sidewalks but it can be something that happens overnight and with hundreds of miles of sidewalk things can happen.

Now sure, there is personal responsibility. I should watch where I'm walking. But, you can be sure the City will get sued when that trip and fall happens.

In the examples I gave it is probably fair to say we can forsee sidewalk trips because they happen. We probably could not forsee the tile falling from the ceiling. Either way, we will be held liable to some degree.

The question will come down to how badly these guys were "injured" and what compensation, if any, they should get. There is no doubt in my mind that Cedar Point and Intamin have some culpability in this. I just don't know to what extent and that is what a jury is for...if it ever makes it that far.

I understand entirely. I know that's how it is, but it's a shame really. Your ceiling tile example is perfect. Buildings are inspected and maintained. I'd also chalk a tile falling as something that just happens.

I'll give you that the owner of the property should cover all injury related expenses. By all means CP should have covered any treatment these people may have needed. I'll even go as far as to say they should cover any additional monies lost due to inability to work, etc. That's what the system was created for.

Going back to my car story...

In theory, the hotel at Disney should've paid me the value of my car so I could replace it. I didn't even want that, that's what I have insurance for (I guess you could say that's what they have insurance for too) - I just needed to get home and find a new car. Our insurance covered the whole thing, they simply filed a report and forgot about it. We got a new car and had a great story to tell.

These people got very minor injuries. If CP paid for any treatment these people needed (peroxide and band-aids ), apologized, offered some little token (like the line passes or something), and looked into changing things so this can't happen again - then everybody got what they deserved. What little problem there was is over.

Now if the same thing happens again, then CP is clearly being negligent to an existing problem. I can even accept that and do believe it.

This just reeks of an attempt to cash in on an unfortunate incident.

The arms in the air has a big part to play. The reason that these kids had such cuts and feelings of "bee stings" on their arms was because they were in the air. If their arms were in the proper riding position, that would have been greatly reduced, if not eliminated.

As for documentation that they were riding improperly? How about This for starters? It also provides a link to the specific news article, however I couldn't get the body of the article to show up. A quote from the discussion thread, however:

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sros208 said:
Quote from the article "“We all had our arms up and Joel said, ‘Tim, what's wrong with your arms?’ and he had blood dripping, he had cuts all over his arms,” said rider Whitney James. "

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Don't get me wrong - I believe that CP should pay for medical expenses. Logic would dictate that would scarcely be more than a couple thousand at most.

Edit: 4am grammar :-P*** This post was edited by dannerman 2/19/2005 4:00:49 AM ***

No doubt about it, these people did nothing wrong and did nothing that would of made this happen. Is the pain and suffering worth 50,000? No. Is that what CP's insurance deductiable is? I would guess yes. Why? Because they know they will settle. Unless of course, CP is self insured.

As for the woman who burned herself with the coffee? She's a moron. I believe she placed the cup between her legs to hold it. Super hot or not, I don't place coffee there, period. Tim Hortons better watch their step. There coffee is at lava temp.

*** This post was edited by 2/21/2005 11:41:45 AM ***

1. The major reason why the McDonald's lady spilled the coffee in the first place is that she was driving and had placed the cup between her thighs. I guess next we'll have a rash of people suing because they were served cold coffee which gave them an upset stomach or constipated them or something.

2. Apparently pain and suffering is only caused by those deemed to have sufficient funds to compensate the alleged victims. How come you never hear of anyone suing a homeless person for pain and suffering?

3. Everyone who says that no amount of money could make things right after such an incident manages to quickly determine the amount that does.

4. All you posters who seem to think all these lawsuits are justified, please send me your names, addresses, your last three tax returns, and a detailed itinerary of your planned whereabouts for this year. I'm thinking my 401K could use a bit of a boost. I'll be seeing you.

No one will probably visit this thread anymore, but in case you do, RGB, great post

1) Coffee served at 180 degrees that caused third degree burns (and noted in internal McDonalds memos that it was unsafe) is not equal to an upset stomach. Also, a) she was not the driver of the vehicle - her grandson was in the drivers' seat; and b) the car was not in motion at the time of the incident. Here are two sites that have the FACTS about the case, not just urban legend accounts of what happened. Site 1. Site 2.

2) How many homeless have ownership of restaurants and amusement parks?

3) It's usually lawyers who decide the $$ amount to sue for, not the client. Again, I think if the park hadn't blown them off completely (sorry, an exit pass doesn't cut it) this could have been avoided without it even getting to the press, let alone into the legal system.

4) Well, seeing that I do not operate any business that promotes itself on its' safety, you'd have no implied safety if you were to arrive on my property. Therefore, you'd have no grounds on which to sue me. And based on that, I respectfully decline to provide you with that information.*** This post was edited by redman822 2/22/2005 10:18:42 AM ***

Points well argued redman822. I agree with you.

With your "Point 3", I think 'Playa really got that good. The company was willing to pay after a complaint had been filed. No lawsuit was filed but the company still wanted to "cover" what had happened and, ultimately, make their customer happy.

A lot of people keep saying things like "what is the world coming to..." in response to these lawsuits. Well I say the same thing in return to the companies reactions. You're providing a service to customers. You want your customers to be happy. It's just like 'Playa's story. They wanted their customers to be happy so they reacted. In THIS incident, CP didn't seem to really care. What they provided just wasn't enough. CP didn't HAVE to do anything but it certainly could have prevented this lawsuit.

Treat your customers right and... well you know the golden rule.

BTW, we don't have to end this discussion just because it's not on the main page! Let's keep it going guys!

A little sensitive there, are we, Redman? UBRhino, you're still wet behind the ears. Save this post and look at it again 10 years from now when (or if) you actually have a job and have earned some money and personal responsibility.

First of all, my comments are dealing with the general explosion of frivolous lawsuits filed all in the name of pain and suffering, mental anguish, etc. and not limited to McDonalds or Cedar Fair.

Second, anyone who thinks episodes of pain and suffering happen only in restaurants and amusement parks owned by "people of residence" should remove their heads from the hole in the ground or from their... There are any number of documented cases of people in the lower socio-economic strata who have caused pain and suffering-- assaults, arsons, uninsured drivers, drunken drivers, etc. I've never seen an attorney on TV saying how he's going to make that part time checkout clerk pay big time for his clients' suffering.

I'd be willing to bet that many a person has gotten burned from coffee/ coffee cups at any number of diners and greasy spoons across the country. You think those cups used at McDonalds were specially manufactured just for them and no other place on the planet used the same kind? But again, our society seems to judge guilt/responsiblity/innocence on the party's ability to pay, not actually how responsible they were for the incident. And of course, corporations, well they aren't real people, so it's not like that money actually comes from anywhere.

You're in for a very rude awakening if you think because you don't operate a business that "promotes itself on its safety" you could never be sued. Does it snow where you live? Better make sure you get every flake of snow and every ice crystal off of your sidewalk before someone falls. Ever have delivery people, utility workers, workmen, even trick-or-treaters come to your house? Make sure there's nothing out of place on which they could injure themselves. Have a dog? Make sure it never bites or even "acts in a way that could be construed as threatening" to someone. In society today, it's not even the intent that counts, it's how the alleged victim "perceived" the situation that determines guilt. There have even been cases where burglars have gotten injured inside a house they were robbing and turned around and sued the owner. Even if the cases got thrown out, those people still had the cost of defending themselves up to that point.

I'm not saying the CP incident should have been brushed aside. But the compensation sought by these people should have been equitable. Doesn't the golden rule apply to the plaintiffs too? They might find themselves on the other end of a lawsuit someday.

If these people settle with CP, I hope they are made to sign a document stating that they and their immediate families agree never to set foot upon property owned by Cedar Fair, upon penalty of trespassing. I also hope these "victims" along with their lawyers get enlightened as to what real pain and suffering is-- go visit the terminal wing of a children's hospital, an AIDS hospice, volunteer for the Red Cross and visit a disaster site.

I wouldn't pass judgment on my posts because of my "age" RGB. Age and life experience/maturity don't go hand in hand...

Sidewalks are usually owned by the town (or at least the property on which they are built is) but yes, I understand that if someone is hurt on your property, they can sue and may win. KNOWING that, people should take action. Put up a "no trespassing" sign on your yard and you should be okay. If you choose not to, don't complain later if you get sued.

I wouldn't blame CP/CF for taking the action mentioned in your post. I also don't blame them for fighting it. Other than the McDonald's law suit, I'm not saying that any of these are just. Some of the things you can sue for are crazy. Still, it's all a reality and both the people and, in this case, the park, should be aware of it. Maybe people should have to sign a waiver before riding these rides. It is extreme but it would let the park breathe easier.

Actually, RGB, it appears that you are the sensitive one here - tossing out people's opinions because in your opinion they are "wet behind the ears."

I answered your points with my opinions and gave my reasoning. If that is being "a little sensitive", why don't you take a good look in the mirror.

What is with all this "cable snapped" crap... the cable didn't snap on this occasion, it frayed, causing the metal shard, described as being smaller in diameter than that of a paper clip wire. The guests said that they had not felt pain during the ride, but realized in the brakes that ones arm was bleeding, then realized that they were penetrated with metal stards.

If the park gave them any compensation for the injuries on the ride, such as the said given exit passes, and they accepted them in return for what happened, and at the time did not wish to persue further suit, Cedar Point / Fair should not be liable for a suit later on down the road, IMO.

Yes, you don't expect this to happen. And even with inspection of the cable you can not determine when or if its going to fray at a certain time, it depends on the situations. Maybe there was something that got into the cable trough and caused the breaking of numorous threads of the wire coiled cable, or maybe it was certain moisture conditions or wind. I am not saying the park should not be liable for the accident, but I do not believe there was a way to stop it, unless the cable was inspected after every launch, and that is not feasible.

As for the pain and suffering. If there was pain, how could you return and have a normal day at the park following that? If there was suffering, again, how can you continue on with your day. If there was pain, how could you not feel it during the ride? The suit, in my opinion, is a load of crap. $50,000 for something they didn't even realize or feel happening until after the ride was over with. It is like someone going to a park, cutting themselves on something at the park, and not realizing it happened until on the way home from the park, and then suing the park for the damages caused.

I don't feel that Cedar Fair should be liable for minor damages caused to money-hungry people, who sue for there benefit, and not to reclaim losses the endured. Maybe it's just me, but are some Americans getting pretty damn pathetic to sue over minor injuries, such as this, for money that is rediculously higher than needed. I give them $10, for the cost of Band-Aids they probably needed once they left the park.