Cedar Point sued in Dragster incident

I just find the blase attitude to be very frustrating in this thread.

So what if I tripped, it was your fault I did.

So what if I spilled coffee, it's your fault I did.

So what if no one could have seen the cable shredding like it did, it's your fault it did.

So what if my shoes got wet from the rain outside, I slipped in your store, it's your fault.

So what if you didn't break the mirror on my car, you hit me so it's your fault.

So what if I'm a moron, it's your fault.

Maybe people should sue their parents for making them so damn incapable of accepting and dealing with decisions they made and actions they took.

I don't see how you can blame the park for this. There was an unforeseen (although that seems to be the source of some debate) malfunction with a ride part. Luckily no one was injured in any way that was remotely serious. You chalk the whole thing up as a learning experience, clean the boo-boos, offer condolences and move on.

Maybe I'll spend this summer tripping over my own two feet at all the parks I visit and blaming the parks for using such unsafe concrete for their walkways and sue for the boo-boo on my knee...because in the end, I just want to fit in.

Gonch, I love the way you think - maybe it's that it seems so damn familiar

So what if I tripped, it was your fault I did.
-The trip wouldn't have occured if it weren't for the poor queue design. (Parks fault).

So what if I spilled coffee, it's your fault I did.
-The spilling wasn't the problem. The fact that the coffee was hot enough to cause 3rd. degree burns was. (McDonald's fault).

So what if no one could have seen the cable shredding like it did, it's your fault it did.
-No it wasn't, but somebody must be to blame (Parks responsibility).

So what if my shoes got wet from the rain outside, I slipped in your store, it's your fault.
-Eh I don't know about that one. I guess the floors have to be dry at all times no matter who brought in the water. (Stores fault).

So what if you didn't break the mirror on my car, you hit me so it's your fault.
-?

So what if I'm a moron, it's your fault.
-Now THAT is just something that you're born with.

I bet you COULD sue your parents for the way they raised you. I wouldn't be suprised. Good luck with your summer "trips" Gonch!

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So what if I tripped, it was your fault I did.
-The trip wouldn't have occured if it weren't for the poor queue design. (Parks fault).

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So thousands of other people tripped there? Hundreds? Tens? Just one? I have to say, regardless of the design, if thousand of people used it everyday and you're the first to trip, it's not the fault of the design.

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So what if I spilled coffee, it's your fault I did.
-The spilling wasn't the problem. The fact that the coffee was hot enough to cause 3rd. degree burns was. (McDonald's fault).

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So if the woman hadn't spilled the coffee, there'd still be an issue?

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So what if no one could have seen the cable shredding like it did, it's your fault it did.
-No it wasn't, but somebody must be to blame (Parks responsibility).

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God? The wind? Joe Pesci? They all make as much sense.

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So what if my shoes got wet from the rain outside, I slipped in your store, it's your fault.
-Eh I don't know about that one. I guess the floors have to be dry at all times no matter who brought in the water. (Stores fault).

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Yeah, because God Forbid, someone isn't there wiping my feet dry as I walk into the store.

I understand you're just kind of arguing the other side at this point, but man, if that is truly how this world thinks, then we're worse off than I ever expected.

"I have to say, regardless of the design, if thousand of people used it everyday and you're the first to trip, it's not the fault of the design."
-Ok, and if you were the 8th, 9th, 10th person to trip?

"So if the woman hadn't spilled the coffee, there'd still be an issue?"
-No. HOWEVER, if the coffee were kept at the right temperature, she could have spilt her coffee all she wanted and may not have gotten hurt.

McDonald's knew that their coffee was too hot. It was made like this to enhance the taste. I think by doing this McDonalds was really taking a risk. IF the coffee was at the standard temperature then I agree, there wouldn't have been an issue.

"God? The wind? Joe Pesci? They all make as much sense."
-Joe Pesci. No I would say Intamin. That's why I think as a result of this law suit, CP should take legal action against them. Until then yes, I believe it is the parks fault (responsibility would be a better word there).

I'm not saying I AGREE with all of those but yes, I do believe that's how the world (or at least America) thinks.

See, I vote Joe Pesci as well.

At the very least, he'd just pull out a baseball bat and take care of things.

Personal responsibility.

Joe Pesci understands....

"So what if I spilled coffee, it's your fault I did."

No one said that it was McDonald's fault for her spilling the coffee, but they did not have to heat it to the point where it could cause 3rd degree burns. Also, someone said earlier that there were already many complaints about their flimsy cups...so was it the woman's fault that McD's was too cheap to buy cups that are quality?

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so was it the woman's fault that McD's was too cheap to buy cups that are quality?

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Nope. But it was her fault that she didn't consider she was holding an extremely hot liquid in a relatively flimsy container and take the necessary actions to prevent an accident.

See, if I was handed a cup like that I'd immediately think (operative word here is think) man, this feels awfully hot and this cup doesn't seem real sturdy. I'd set the cup down to cool and perhaps even ask if there was another cup I could put it in or even if I could just have another cup to double up by putting the full one inside the empty one.

Of course that assumes the first time I noted a problem. If I had actually visited McD's before and received very hot coffee in a cup that didn't seem adequate, I'd probably stop somewhere else for coffee if I really thought it was a safety issue.

You take the necessary action to keep yourself safe, you don't walk mindless though life expecting others to look out for you.

McDonald's served hot coffee in a cup. Nothing more. The old lady dumped it on herself. The spilling caused the injury. Hot coffee itself does not inujure unless you put it on yourself.

If the bottom fell out of the cup, then you look to the cup. Was it meant to hold hot coffee? If so, the cup manufacturer is at fault. If not McDonald's is. But that didn't happen. She dropped it.

So did she drop it because of the quality? None of McDonald's other billions and billions of customers had an issue. The old lady f'd up and revealed a problem with the system (coffee served at too high a temp) - great, now they know and things change so next time some old lady can't hold onto a cup, no one has to hear about it...

...except the kid with the mop working the morning shift at McDonald's.

In the end, it's an "is the glass half full or half empty" arguement. Does the personal responsibility lie in McDonald's to be sure they serve potentially scalding coffee or does it lie in the customer to make sure they don't pour scalding liquid on themselves. I happen to take the side of being proactive and making sure stuff like this doesn't happen to me rather than blaming someone else when it does.

Don't walk though life blindly expecting others to look out for you, then complain when they don't.

How can you even BEGIN to compare this situation with the McDonalds coffee lady? These people did not do anything to cause their injury. They were sitting on a rollercoaster. They didn't open a molten cup of coffee in their car...they were just riding a coaster when, out of the blue, the cable snapped and shot out needle sharp wire fragments into the riders.

Even "freak accidents" have, in the end, someone who is ultimately culpable and liable for the injuries that were caused.

I can just imagine what all you CP fanboys will do and say if an accident like this happens at GAdv this summer...*** This post was edited by redman822 2/17/2005 11:23:43 PM ***

So how about when Michigan's Adventures Chaos fell over in 2001 was it? Did those individuals harmed sue or have a right to sue for damages???? Is that a reasonable risk to incur in a park visit? Does anyone know what happened with that?

Also, my opinion is that if it is found Cedar Point was in error for how they managed the ride that lead to that incident, the victims should be awarded the damages and also the court use that as an example, that it is unacceptable to put people in an unreasonable risk.

Why do people keep saying they did absolutely nothing wrong? As I've said earlier in this discussion, it is DOCUMENTED in the news reports and their own testimonies that they had their arms in the air, and as a result of the cable shards, their arms were bleeding. Had they been riding in a proper manner, their arms would not be bleeding as much (if at all). Regardless which side of the argument you choose to jump on, the poor, defenseless, pain-and-suffering kids aren't blameless. They contributed to their own injury by ignoring that loud, obnoxious "ARMS DOWN!" they always play at the launch repeatedly, not to mention the various signs to the same warnings.

The fact of the matter is, everyone must realize that if you're going to travel around 120 mph its common sense see there is always an "inherent danger". You have to throw caution to the fact that you're in a hunk of metal and wire thats moving faster than you hopefully were as you were driving to the park in your car. This machine is mainly controlled by computer, which I know everyone here knows they fail on a regular basis. Now you cant tell me that any reasonable thought processing human-being cant see and danger in that at all. I'm sry but i go in favor of CF/CP/Intamin for this one.

Yes I understand that they shouldnt have been hit with the metal shards. Yes the cable shouldnt have snapped. Yes the whole thing shouldnt have happened, but even if we forget everything else. What I dont get is where they get the basis for $50,000. Okay yes they got a few scratches here and maybe a bruise there. How do they figure there entitled to $50,000?!?!?! The way I figure it "Medical Expenses", if thats what you want to call it, cant top more than $2000 and even that seems extreme (unless they went to some high end surgeon){(sarcasm)}; and if they want to play the pain & suffering bit that shouldnt top $5,000 again at the risk of sounding extreme. How I see it give 'em 10g's and a few passes and send them skipping on there way home. Just get it over with. To much time is being spent on this.

How about the S:ROS accident where the brakes failed? Were those people at fault? Yes June, computers fail. So should those people have just "expected" that to happen?

But again, Dannerman, would you care to explain to me how having their arms up (which I still have not seen any of this documentation that you keep referring to) how did that cause the wires to go into their face and ears?

And June, perhaps they already tried to settle with CP before lawyers and the judicial system got involved. Once you have to have lawyers and spend court time and fees, they will only get a percentage of the total amount that is sued for.

And for all of you to say, "It's only a few needle-like wounds, get over it!" Why don't you come by Casa Rojo and et me stab you repeatedly with needles and then afterwards tell me what you think. But even then, it still wouldn't be comparable because a) you were expecting that to happen; b) you willingly came knowing that you would be injured; and c) you were not participating in what is considered a safe recreational activity.

But most telling of all, none of you CP fanboys have answered my comment yet about what you'd say if this were to happen at GAdv this summer. If it does, and I pray that it doesn't, I will be saying the same thing...will you? For most of you, I doubt it.

Yes, let's please get off of this bandwagon of the patrons were at fault for having their hands up. Having their hands up in no way contributed to the cable snapping. Why is it that the majority of people here hold their arms up are suddenly focused on how wrong it is to do that? And yes, CP is responsible. And, quit blowing hot air about "inherent danger". You're using it as a crutch.

Think about how many people every year make claims against regional transit system, car insurance companys and just about anything else that deals w/the public.
I see it this way: if my anti-lock brakes fail and i hit a VP or employee of CF or any other park, would i not get sued or have a claim on my insurance?
Sure, you could argue the point that maybe they didn't have the right of way when they walked in front of my car, but it doesn't change the fact that i'd get sued. you could also say that maybe they shouldn't have gotten up that morning...
You go to a park to have fun. you don't go there to get injured. I'm just glad no one lost their sight. That would be a multi-million claims for sure.

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But most telling of all, none of you CP fanboys have answered my comment yet about what you'd say if this were to happen at GAdv this summer. If it does, and I pray that it doesn't, I will be saying the same thing...will you? For most of you, I doubt it.

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Can't speak for anyone else, but my stance on the park has nothing to do with my opinion. I find it a tad insulting that you imply that. I'm capable of forming my own opinion and in all honesty could really care less if CP got sued for the entire park and had to close the doors. It'd just mean I have to go somewhere else next summer.

$50,000 is chump change on the park's end, this won't effect them a bit monetarily.

I'd take the same stance regardless of which park this happened at.

1. The injuries were minimal, sufficient care was given.
2. There is a risk taken everytime you board a thrill ride.
3. The real debate is whether CP cared for the ride and had any indication this could happen. CP tends to have a phenominal safety record and I doubt they would have operated the ride if they felt it was unsafe. Essentially, I don't think there was negligence, nor intentions of injuring patrons.

Beyond peroxide and band aid costs, I don't think any park should be financially responsible in this type of situation.

I do understand that the world generally doesn't work this way, but it really should. The systems sucks and so does everyone who plays into it.

This coming from the guy who had his car crushed at a hotel on Disney property and got (and expected) nothing more than a rental car for 7 days and a 6 inch plush Mickey Mouse. Hell, we stayed at the park for 2 more days after it happened.

Whoa Gonch, those are crazy car photos. Thank God you weren't IN it!

Yeah today at class I relayed the scenario to some of my friends. They all had that "get over it" attitude. They said as long as their medical bills were paid, they wouldn't care. They also said the "pain and suffering" bit is a load of crap. I didn't think they would all have that opinion.

My friends also told me that the riders should have expected to get hurt because rollercoaster’s are so unsafe...

Ah... the GP (j/k)

About 4 years ago, I would have said that the people who want to sue CP were crazy and out of there minds. I would have said, "what is this world coming to?"

But my views have changed over the years. The fact remains that no matter what you say, the incident should not have happened. When I go to an amusement park, I should expect to ride a ride and have nothing physically damage me while I ride a coaster or whatever. This should never happen. When something does happen though and it is not rider related, the park or manufacturer should always be at fault.

Yes, the injuries were minimal, but it should not have happened.

No, there should be no risk involved in riding a coaster if you are healthy and ride correctly (in the courts mind and in my mind). If I buy an oven, there should be no risk of it burning my house down if I use it properly and correctly. If an incident happens, then GE or whoever is at fault for a design flaw.

CP or Intamin may have never had any intention of this happening, but the fact is that it did. As much as I want to backup the amusement industry and CP, I can't. Ethics tells me that the park or Intamin was at fault. It is unfortunate that it happened, but this is the risk engineers and maintenance teams take in designing/maintaining anything. Especially 'prototypes.'

Jonathan Smith

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If I buy an oven, there should be no risk of it burning my house down if I use it properly and correctly. If an incident happens, then GE or whoever is at fault for a design flaw.

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But the flip-side argument is that if you drive your car properly and there are no mechanical malfunctions, then you should expect nothing to happen. We know that isn't true. Sure the incidents for each individual who drives in that manner rarely happen, but there is always a chance.

I compared riding thrill rides more to driving a car than using an oven. (I guess it depends on how you use the over though )

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It is unfortunate that it happened, but this is the risk engineers and maintenance teams take in designing/maintaining anything. Especially 'prototypes.'

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See, what this is turning into is the old "is the glass half empty or half full" debate.

I see it exactly the opposite and would say - It is unfortunate that it happened, but this is the risk riders take in riding anything. Especially 'prototypes.'

I still fail to see why individual responsibilty doesn't exist. It's up to me to make choices and when one doesn't go as planned, who's to blame?

Well, someone else, of course!