Tussauds Group on sale for £500 million

Jeff, you are right about the "traditional" parks. I love them. But if they are in trouble with budget and need to sell the park, then I would love for Six Flags to buy those parks such as Kennywood, only if that park is in budget trouble. I'd rather seeing Superman theme than losing the park.

That's what Six Flags is all about, they saved lot of parks. If they had never bought Great Escape, I can see it shutting down by now.

So Jeff, Which would you rather, losing Kennywood and Holiday World or having Six Flags buy them, and make them bigger? If you are trying to say "oh, that will never happen." Don't be so sure about what happen in the future. 10 years before, we would never thought that Six Flags would buy Great Escape.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this summer!

The worst SF park I've been to has been WOA and I still loved that park (poor service, incredible attractions). In addition, I've been to SFGAm (my favorite so far, outstanding rides and service), SFOG (only slightly "worse" than GA because of less coasters), SFNE (mediocre service, excellent coasters!), and SFKK (I'll dare to say great service on all my recent visits, decent coasters). So, are the parks really that bad or am I too dumb to know a bad park when I see one (and if I am, I don't want to know)? I guess I go to all these parks on the wrong days!

Cedar Point alone has 4 coasters that start with M, 3 that start with W, a Camp Snoopy and those characters running around. I'm not complaining that they're overusing M or W in the same park. I thought the point of these parks was to make money because they're a business. Big superhero names like Superman and Batman are good for business, right? And not everyone knows that there are about a dozen or so rides with Superman or Batman in the world, so it doesn't matter. People talk about the parks aren't supposed to please enthusiasts with all of their additions and then the same people complain that they overuse a good name or design that might do well at another park. I don't get it.

And Kennywood and Holiday World would be better off as a Six Flags park than closed.

-Danny

But what I'm saying is that SFI hasnt taken anything *away* from the basic framework of the parks they've 'ingested', but have rather added on to them. Now if you want to talk in terms of "traditional" feel versus "trademarked icons" we will be here all day as you all know I much prefer the icons to the trees. So in my opinion, that would be an UPgrade not a 'de'grade.

But since you brought up Kennywood and HW (as if I would back down from a challenge ) I could see instances where SFI strategies could help out both parks. In the case of Holiday World, have you ever seen an SF park without a merry-go-round? And what would be wrong with a little "deep pocket" expansion?

As for Kennywood, I said it before, I thought that it felt every bit as "corporate" as other large parks. It's not as if you dont see "Garfield" products scattered around the parks. But if one good thing would happen under SFI management, park goers would get a high-quality park map to help them plan their day.

Now sure, if SFI took over those parks, threw all the workers out and got rid of all the "best practices" each of those parks do well (ride maintanence, decent food, etc.) then YES that would be a bad thing. But I dont see evidence that is the SFI pattern. Many people here have alluded to the "individuality" of the SF parks, where, in general, they retain the "feel" they had under previous management. I would expect that trend to continue.

But what I *dont* understand is how come comics, or more broadly, fictional characters, do *not* fit into amusement parks. Even the "Sacred Cow" of Holiday World themes its rides to works of literary ficition. You *never* hear anyone complain about the 'minimalist' theming on those rides. But let a ride be at a SF park and "it's on like a pot of neckbones". I've come to the conclusion that is simply a reflection of personal preference and I can accept that someone would rather see themes made up by Edgar Allen Poe than Bob Kane. But to think that one inherently hurts a park but the other does not, IMO, is at best a tenous argument.

lata, jeremy

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"Life *is* pain, Princess. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something."

But Kennywood and Holiday World aren't in trouble, and the Tussauds parks just had their best year ever. That entire project is a bank project, and was from the outset (that's what venture cap firms do... built a business then sell it off at a profit).

As for "enemies," it's a shame you look at anything that way, because we're talking about stupid roller coasters, not world war. Anyone who considers themselves an "enemy" of a Web site or the person that runs it needs to get a life.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

"So Jeff, Which would you rather, losing Kennywood and Holiday World or having Six Flags buy them, and make them bigger? If you are trying to say "oh, that will never happen." Don't be so sure about what happen in the future."

*Sigh...*

The choice between the parks closing or becoming Six Flags-owned hasn't even been mentioned. I believe we were discussing the best possible buyers.

EDIT: Jeff beat me to it...

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-Vater
'These pretzels are making me thirsty.'
Take a ride...

*** This post was edited by Vater 2/25/2003 4:27:20 PM ***

Jeff, we are just debating, that could helps newbies on for knowledge on coasters and parks. I feel that a debate can help to get this site to be more talkactive. I have nothing against you, I support CF, i support SF, it doesn't matter to me, and I'm not an enemy. I'm just making some points, and instead you shot it down like usual. If you think we are wrong, that's fine with us. Again, we are not enemies, we are just debating. Thank you.

-Chris

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this summer!

XFan, it was Sharpe... who said something about having "enemies". I would like to believe that the vast majority of people here see coasters/parks as a trivial diversion. Personally, since all anyone seems to talk about here in my nation's capital is snow and "safe rooms" I find the diversion refreshing

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"Life *is* pain, Princess. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something."

I think his (my) point was, what if there are/were no buyers? Of course neither of the parks are in trouble right now, but it was brought up anyways. Things like that happen.

Right now, I think the best buyers would be Paramount Parks. Great service, they should keep the general theming and atmosphere, and they are constantly improving their parks. They seem most similar to Tussauds of all the chains I've seen.

-Danny*** This post was edited by Koaster King 2/25/2003 5:03:43 PM ***

Jeremy, being around the comic book industry my whole life, I enjoy the DC themeing as much as you do (I'm kinda biased towards the Marvel themeing at IOA, but for entirely different reasons ). I wouldn't particulary like the idea of Batman or Superman showing up at small, quaint parks like Holiday World or Knoebels (better example than Kennywood, maybe), but that's of course just my personal preference (now, Gleek, on the other hand...).

Consider this, however: even though SFA is arguably better than Adventure World, why is the park still poorly managed, even after four years of operation? If there is a standard of quality service set by Six Flags, Inc., it's either not being met or it's set extremely low. Sure, there would be some cool rides added, but I would have a hard time believing that management would improve, or even remain remotely close to the quality it is now, at say, Six Flags Santa Claus.

That's my main concern when considering the Tussaud's parks.

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-Vater
'These pretzels are making me thirsty.'
Take a ride...

Vater, I of course cannot answer the "why" question for SFA as I am not privy to the inner workings of the park. What I *can* say is that there was a marked improvement in 2002 over 2001.

However, the question I would pose to you is how did the "service" in 1998 compare with the service in 1999 and beyond? If somehow there was a decline, then I would join you in being fearful over the Tussad parks. But it is my guess that did not happen. I just dont understand all the "gloom and doom" if no such pattern exists. If it *does* exist, I invite someone to expose it to me. I do not have *much* experience with "pre-SFI" parks. I dont remember much of a shift from Marriott's (not Evan) to Six Flags (then Bally's) for SFGAm and I dont remember much from my one visit to Adventure World in 1998 (though I can say it was not markedly better than SFA now). But if the other "flagged" parks have suffered in service since the change, I will "drop my flag" (pun intended) and be right with you all.

Personally, I'd like to see every park run like HERSHEYPARK anyway

lata, jeremy

--resident HERSHEYPARK Ho

"(not Evan)" <--LOL.

Honestly, I didn't notice a difference in service between 2001 or 2002. It may have been a tad cleaner, but employees were no friendlier than before. And 'friendly' is not a term that could even be used in the same sentence with some of them. 'Sour' would be more accurate.

True, I will agree that my Adventure World experience in 1995 was not markedly better than now, but it was definitely not worse, either. Call me crazy, but wouldn't you expect world-class service from all parks that bear the name of the largest theme park chain in the world? Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, I don't know. Perhaps in a couple of years, things will improve. We'll see.

"Personally, I'd like to see every park run like HERSHEYPARK anyway "

Darn tootin'.

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-Vater
'These pretzels are making me thirsty.'
Take a ride...

Based on continuing "what no wood" articles in RCCGB's Airtime magazine, I think we safely assume Tussaud's will *never* build a woodie, one thing I know Six Flags would more than likely put in straight away.

The UK needs more wood (even if it is Vekoma and called Superman).

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Coaster Grotto - Save your Top 20 Coasters and Track Record Online!

Sorry i have taken so long to get back to this discussion which i appear to have started (sorry moderators), but the time difference here in Aus is very different.

First off i want to state that i love America and it's people so what i am about to say is not to be taken the wrong way.

Six Flags IS a prime example of what is happening to American culture and lifestyle. It is a process called Americanisation and we studied at University in england. It is where everyone drinks Coke, eats at Mcdonalds and drives an SUV. The majority of the American population does not like change or anything new, your lack of travelling or knowledge about the world supports this. The average american is happy with what they know and nothing different. This is getting a bit deep, i hear you say, maybe but it is also relevant to the Theme park industry.

Average Familly with 3 kids is very happy with going to a Six flags park seeing Superman and Batman, riding great coasters (ok they be clones, but they do not know that) and having a wicked day. You/Us enthusiasts are not happy with the same theming day in day out, and i can understand that but why do you think that cedar fair don't heavily theme their parks?? Because it is unnecessary in their eyes. And they are probably right, the average american familly does not need to see good theming as long as the kids are having fun. This saves a good amount of cash for the parks, to be spent on other areas, such as cleanliness.

In the Uk slapping a huge coaster in the parking lot would not work. Firstly due to the height restrictions and secondly due to what has come before. ie. Nemesis. Everything will look second rate next to it. Plus the Brits don;t really like or accept similary things. Why are areas of the country and the people so different from one area to the next- because diversity is good. Six Flags, i am sure understand this and will treat the parks accordingly, plus the massive profits will be beneficial to all you American fans as well. So it is a win win scenario in my mind.

The standard of service as a general rule in the States is very good, compared to Europe it is amazing, the cleanliness of your parks inculding Six flags ones are way better then ones around the world. But i have to say you Americans are way too picky and agro about 'so called' service. You spit the dummy if you don't get everything your own way. Life is like that, you have to bite the bullet and move on. I am not sure what Six Flags have done to deserve this bad rep, but having worked in the Hospitality industry, there is nothing worse than having to put up with thousands of people having a great time while you are at WORK. My trip at SFMM was perfect- no problems at all (except X being closed) and i am so looking forward to going back there in sep.

Jeff was right in one of his replies (shocking i know) these are only roller coasters people, just go and chill out and enjoy yourself. Don't create hassle unnecessarily for the staff, just have a good day out, at Six flags or Cedar fair, or Paramount or.......

No wood coming to England hey, well the next planned coaster for Alton Towers was ( and i say was) to be a John Wardley designed woodie.

Thats what i have to say for now, but i will be off to the Gold coast in 2 weeks to go to WBMW (not owned by Six Flags) and Dreamworld, i will be posting trip reports so read them!! Have a great day all you guys and i will speak to you soon.

"It is a process called Americanisation and we studied at University in england. It is where everyone drinks Coke, eats at Mcdonalds and drives an SUV."

Funny, over here we call it homogenization. And believe me, not all Americans are happy about the SUV trend.

You raise a good point, though. Americans ARE a spoiled lot when it comes to service (myself included). We happily complain about Six Flags, when to be honest it really isn't THAT bad. Now, that's not to say that I'd want Six Flags to buy the Tussauds parks, because I'm afraid they WOULD start stamping the Warner Brothers/DC stuff all over the place (although I guess "Zatanna's Hex" wouldn't be TOO bad )

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."

*** This post was edited by GregLeg 2/26/2003 10:04:19 AM ***

Why does everyone don't want Superman and Batman at Tussauds? What's wrong with those theming? They are fine with me. The problem is that you guys are complaining because coasters have same names, well, get over it. They are just coasters, important part is get happy riding those coasters. If Alton Towers will change AIR into Superman, well accept it, it's still the same coaster. My point is that I dont see anything wrong with those kind of theming. IMO I like those theming because they are colorful and looking nice under Six Flags trademark. I love seeing red, blue, yellow, black coasters instead of purple and pink.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this summer!

But the point is these parks are already beautifully themed, and there would be no NEED for such changes. Now granted, maybe even if Six Flags DID buy the parks, they'd leave well enough alone anyway, but we HAVE seen them start slipping in the WB stuff -- look at the current Six Flags parks outside of America.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."*** This post was edited by GregLeg 2/26/2003 3:19:00 PM ***

Oh, now I get it, those parks are already themed, you are right. If Six Flags buy those parks, then I don't mind them leave the parks the way as it is now. Only if the park is poorly themed then they will theme it with Warners Bros stuff. But those parks seem that they don't need any improvements, but still it would be good for Six Flags to buy them. Thanks for making a good point for me. :-)

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this summer!

Here's my POV. I've never been to the parks in that part of the world, but have seen plenty enought pix to tell they are great. I don't hate Six Flags at all, infact, they have great rides. But that's just it. Six Flags parks are about rides moreso than anything else to me, being thrilled on the newest type of ride the parks have to offer. Thats why they consider SFMM an "Xtreme" park now, and less a Theme park. Paramount, CF, and others are a little better themed, though there are exceptions. The Tussads parks are HEAVILY themed, and are very traditional, so I'd rather see them picked up by a company that has the same values. Six Flags is great for rides, that's their thing, and I don't hate them for it. I will say that some of their parks are improving, heck, even Astroworld is getting something new this year. But that still dosen't change my view.

Personally, I like Paramount parks, but I'd rather see a more traditional park chain pick these english parks up than I would Paramount.

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There is no spoon.